This is something I've been talking to people about and really see the need for in the church: an open source, Creative Commons licensed hymnal. It could be done online with the Drupal Book module and maybe a forum for discussion, audio nodes, etc.
Basically, the problem now is that we can't legally stream our service without paying exorbitant fees to the copyright holders of all the hymns, liturgies, etc. If people would write new arrangements to public domain hymns, new liturgies that are enough of a variation from existing ones (or based on Public domain ones) so as to be able to be distributed freely or even with a cost but minimal licensing headaches (like pay to purchase a song, but not have to pay performance royalties), we could then use those liturgies and hymns, videotape an entire service, and either stream (via Stickam) or distribute as a video podcast & even in YouTube, etc., we could bring the church service (thus the Gospel) to those who are unable to come.
I don't have time to run it--I already run 5 sites--but would love to see it happen. Throw some Google ads on it or something to help cover costs, or get non-profit status and get a free site from Dreamhost.
Wouldn't that be cool, or am I insane? I'd think you could contact the Christian artists on the podsafe music network to see whether they'd like to contribute content to get it started.
Another good idea.
I think this would be a good idea. And, it wouldn't be hard to do. Even getting it published with that license for all those places people want a book.
It just needs someone to head it up with contacts, the ability to raise people up, and people willing to contribute to it. I'd figure it to be musical people on staff at churches that are about open stuff or want to broadcast their stuff and can't.
The hosting side of things wouldn't be that hard.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
I don't totally understand
I don't totally understand Creative Commons, but from what I've seen, I think I totally agree with the concept. Now, I do believe in paying for copyrighted music, but once you have paid, shouldn't you be free to adapt it to the needs of your congregation, including using it as part of a worship webcast? A Creative Commons hymnal site would be great.
The only question remains, of course, who creates and administers this site? Most church workers/musicians I know barely have time to sleep, let alone take on such a massive project. Any thoughts?
license not buying
The difficult part with music is that you don't buy it. You pay to use it under a license with just certain things allowed. It's one thing to have it printed, another to have it printed on a screen, another to play it through speakers, another to sync it to a video, and still another circumstance to play it and broadcast what you played. Each of these has difference licenses with different licensing.
It's quite the pain. If you can do all of this stuff with a song you most likely have a licensing contract that costs you thousands of dollars. The part in particular about broadcasting it is big.
The idea of creative commons and using one of those licenses is that it would simplify this. The goal would be a license that lets you do all of this for free. To have music you can use in any way you like (besides maybe commercially to make a profit) to play, project, copy, and even broadcast. All without the thousands of dollars in fees.
Who would run something like this? That's a darn good question. I'd think the more difficulty part wouldn't be building it but marketing it, adding to it, and getting others to add to it. That would take some time.
My thoughts would be that this needs a team of people. A few tech people to setup and maintain the site. A few musicians to get it started and spread the word, and a few people familiar with the legalese to make sure nothing copyrighted got on there to avoid the legal issues.
I really like this idea. It can save the church a bundle of money, bring back some of the oldie but goodie songs, and give many more musicians the chance to get their work herd.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
This is really a point at
This is really a point at which Christians need to come together and decide what is really glorifying God and what isn't. I just can't imagine Paul in Athens, preaching to the Romans, and Barnabus saying "Any unauthorized use or broadcast of this sermon without express written consent of the Jerusalem Copyright Cousel is prohibited."
Or David. You get the idea.
More Christian publishers and artists and authors are going to need to think about this issue.
Worker worth his wages
But we need to keep in mind things like I Timothy 5:18 and Luke 10:7.
I'm not saying that I'm in love with they copyright laws as they currently exist. But we do need to keep a balance in mind.
Sigh... Acts 2:44-45, 4:32
Sigh...
Acts 2:44-45, 4:32
Agreed to both
Let's say that I agree to both... sort of.
We do need to keep in mind our responsibilities to care for our families. God does provide ways for us to earn money to care for the things we need. We need to respect that.
On the flip side we are to share what we have. There is a point where things stifle the work of the church. Music has become one of those places. Can a church broadcast their service on TV? Not everything that has to do with music unless they have a very expensive license. Something you local church can't afford. Can a church put it's service on the Internet. The same thing applies with licenses getting in the way.
I am all for artists making money on what they do. Especially song writers who do that professionally. They aren't out on tours making money off shows. They do need to be supported. But, our current system isn't working. Not for the mission of the church. It's stiffling it.
I'm not saying that we need to get rid of the copyrighted stuff. I don't expect that to go away unless there is a major change in the law of the land. But, we as a church do need the materials to reach out in these new avenues and current copyright schemes make it both confusing and costly.
Yet, we need to make sure the needs of those who write the songs are covered....
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
I like the idea... would this cause problems with CCLI, etc.
I like this direction. The original exempt/provisions for support of churches now seem out of date (only direct performance during worship service is provided for).
I'd hope that some form of existing CC license could gather enough support from license holder to make this possible under existing law, but I don't really know enough about this. I would think that if the current CC license can't get enough buy in, some other standardized formulation could. I wonder how much and and how committed a lot of existing Christian content is to existing Christian Copyright clearing houses like CCLI We are quirky enough and small enough that the CCLI licenses have not really been attractive to us. Anyone else know about this?
Right now we are in the habit of trying to look for and include at least some music which is copyright safe. We usually find that both member and paid musical performers are fine with unrestricted digital distribution produced from service performances.
But .....we've ended up sticking to composition from the classical repertoire, public domain sources, and original compositions. We've never made an attempt to get a license exemptions from publishers or creators.
I'd hope that some form of existing CC license could gather enough support from license holders to make this possible under existing law, but I don't really know enough about this. I would think that if the current CC license can't get enough buy in, some other standardized license formulation could.
Mark
Problem with CCLI
Some things can be dual licensed if the licenses allow for it and the owner decides to do so. This can get tricky when a business holds the copyright and we see that on more than a few occasions.
I think the CC licenses have gotten some trackion. I see a multipart problem.
1) We are used to the model we have and churches tend to be slow to try and change.
2) CCLI is easier. It costs but for many I think it's easier. The barrier to entry on something like this is higher for the common church. That's one of the reasons I'd like something like this project. It has the potential to lower the barrier for entry for local churches.
3) Getting artists on board. This could give smaller artists some much loved exposure.
4) Labels. Many record labels are pretty stingy. How to you get them to buy into this?
I'm sure there are more issues. In any case, I'd love to see a group of people try.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
Thinking again about this
What I meant was that artists and producers could..SHOULD.. give willingly of at least a portion of their songs for public use. It doesn't mean they won't receive for their work.
Heck, make it a tithe. I tithe 10% of my song library. I'll choose one or two songs from each cd to include on that cd a playback and free use license. Ideas like that.
Interesting Concept
I like this idea. I wonder what it would take to get the labels to buy into something like this.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
Good ideas
I don't know what it would take, but I hope someone takes this up.
I suspect many would partake out of good will....
And many of those commercial, legal, and political interests that aren't sufficiently motivated or swayed by good will alone (or at all) could probably be swayed for PR reasons at the right moment and with the right publicity.
I can't help think a PR campaign done in the run-up to this time of year might work well. I hope this doesn't sound to calculating... I'm just brainstorming on what might work.
Mark
brainstorming good
I like this brainstorming. I guess the question is... who will head this up? Who will take the lead?
Lately, I've herd a lot of great ideas like this. The shortage comes from lack of money or lack of people to lead the projects.
Maybe this is a time to start talking about giving in churches and what to do about that... you need money to makes some of this happen. Even wikipedia needs money to operate what's free for people. To cover hosting costs and techie people to keep it up and running.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
Similar projects
There are a number of similar projects that I have run across in my wanderings. Check out The Open Hymnal - http://openhymnal.org/ - they have about 90 hymns in various forms, and their link page http://openhymnal.org/links.ht... links to several other projects. One that is not linked there but which I know about because it is run by a friend is http://www.christmascarolmusic... - dedicated to all Christmas Carols.
I haven't investigated the specifics of the PDfs that the various sites offer, but it seems to me that one could take advantage of existing Book-on-Demand services to create customized hymnals for your own group's tastes pretty simply with these tools. Maybe even round up the costs a bit and make a donation to the contributors to keep the web sites going...
That is not bad, but it is
That is not bad, but it is just a collection of stuff too old to have a copyright. I do like the pdf/book on demand thing. I do think here, thought that this idea goes beyond a hymnal to broadcast rights and such of contemporary music. (contemporary as in new, rather than style)
Someone up there in LifeWay needs to get on to this. That's a big enough organization with enough organization and money to get it done.
Need New
I've got two thoughts on these:
1) They need a better looking site. Something more professional. I think that would help drive up usage.
2) They need some newer stuff. I'm a fan of a lot of old lyrics. But, what about new tunes to go with them. Maybe a guitar version. Things like that. God never dictated a certain form of music.
I do like where this stuff is going. But, I'm not sure Lifeway is who should do it. Maybe it's just me being a fan of grass roots.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com