Hi Guys,
I have felt burdened to start a website that helps Christians in business and technlogies to come together to dialog how they can better use their giftings to serve ministries and missions. I know, it sounds like the purpose of GeekandGod, but I've honestly googled things in this direction and didn't find anything and that is why I started down this path (don't want to reinvent wheels!)
So far it has been pretty discouraging. I have invited some close friends to participate on the website and so far only 1 person stayed around. I reliazed that people I invited were not necessarily the right audience so now I am focusing inviting people from ministries/missions/church staff.
I approached one of my pastors about starting a luncheon for the high number of computer professionals so we can share ideas. I was told that I should do that on an individual basis and not do it through the church bulletin. I've also been told that I should pray about it and make sure it is from the Lord. I found the whole experience discouraging. I believe this is from God, if not, then I rather be spending my time playing video games or something.
Maybe I am just not talking to the right people, maybe there is just no interest out there? I noticed that (this is NOT a dig) there are not that many people on this forum either (at least posting-wise) and I really like this podcast and I am assume that it has thousands of listeners so are the Christian tech people just don't understand the purpose of such communities?
Any ideas on how I can better explain the vision to people? Have you tried to do things like this and what were your experiences?
Thanks
Ray
Ray, this is a tough area.
Ray, this is a tough area. Rob and I know the discouragement that can happen. We have done things in the past to try and promote technology and they have failed miserably. Some of them even had some pretty good resources and people behind them. Those experiences taught me that the way God plans on doing things isn't always the way we see as best or may even think is what he is calling us to do.
I don't mean to discourage you. I'd rather encourage you. Don't give up. I'd, also, say pray a lot about this and spend some time in scripture. Let God guide you. Let God do what He intends.
At the same time look at our society. Barna recently released some trend information about the US. They are in love with themselves. Take a look at the housing market. According to experts people are trying to live beyond their means. I work with a load of technology professionals and even some real experts. Many of them work long hours and barely have time for their families. What I see is many people who can help the church and can do good for the kingdom of God but they are too busy being part of the world in a bad way.
Something like what I think you are proposing sounds like a good thing. But, there is a lot more to deal with than just getting people together and the technology.
I'd say go for this community you are talking about. But, consider your approach. What is the goal of the community? How to people interact? How are they getting fed through the community? How does it interact in their lives?
Does this make sense?
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
Community Participation
Some reflections....
More people get involved when it serves multiple purposes in their lives and involvement doesn't pose much of a threat to making their busy lives more unmanagable.
A lot of people are maxed out on a lot of counts in their lives or pretty much feeling like they are (when you are living it, it seems the same thing). When considering a new endevor or involvement, people prefer those opportunities where they see tangible rewards in other areas of their lives, paths where involvement can be gradual, and for which they can opt out while trying out participation. Can't say what will work for your endeavor or your community... I'm just generalizing about western society from vantage point of USA.
I think today, and perhaps during most times, most people look to faith and faith communities for strength, comfort, and order. They look at most other types of participation in those communities as a "giving back" and that giving back often needs to come out of what seem to them a very limited pool of personal resources.
Mark
BTW.... I've added a tangental reflection below... partially inspired by this forum topic and partially by current events...
IMHO... I think our culture currently overemphasizes conflicts between Christians and other faiths and even between the theist and the secular. It seems to me a at least equally important emphasis and distinction would be the frictions that exist between the pull towards lives dominated (often unconsciously) by hedonistic consumerism and lives better balanced by beliefs in greater powers and meanings, and by pursuits of greater understandings and "goods". I'm not saying there are not important or valuable distinctions to be made between faiths, just that they have common struggles that are more in need of unity than division. Too often we are tempted to see people of other faiths and secular people and simplisticly equate them with those values that are essentially hedonistic and/or consumerist in nature. We know our faith as a powerful defense against those values and I think we sometimes wrongly assume all those outside our community are left more blind, defenseless, heartless or ignorant than they in reality are.
OK, no more preaching... back to tech..
interesting...
Your rant at the end brings up an interesting point. This division between Christianity and everything else that gets played up. I think this is in part due to the media. They are all about conflict. It brings in the viewers, readers, and ratings. They do the same thing with celebrities, politics, and everything else they can get their hands on. I, also, think this is in part due to Christians and the way they act. There are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who act in a very un-Christ like manner. Statistics show little to no difference in the lifestyles of those who call themselves Christians to those who aren't. From their consumeristic spending habits to their teen pregnancy rates.
So, this is part culture and part us as Christians. If we want people to take us seriously we need to take the biblical lifestyle seriously. Otherwise it's like that guy we all seem to know that wonders why no one listens to him. Yet, he never steps up to show he's has something worth listening to.
back to our regularly scheduled teching...
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
Thanks for the replies
Matt & Mark, thanks for sharing your struggles so I know I am not alone in this and good points on the site need to provide value or they won't come. That is good insight on the way the society/church is today.
I have given this more thought and I think the goal is to bring people together so they can be better at what they do. The goal is not technology but the application of it. I am thinking of to link up tech professionals who wants to volunteer their knowledge and talent and all the missionaries out on the field, not knowing what is available to them. The community is to foster networking and sharing of knowledge and resources.
Since we are throwing tangents around, I think one of the underlying issue here is how different people discern God's will and how they interact with other people's ways. On one hand, I don't want to be the guy that did all these things for Jesus but never knew him, on the other hand, I don't want to be the guy that sat around and buried my talent because I was too lazy and afraid.
In the past, I have wasted a lot of times on self gratifying things like video games and it is when I took God's calling on my life more seriously, these ideas comes. I am not trying to make money and they don't go against Biblical principles, so I have to say I feel bit taken back when the first response I get from people is to pray more about it. I feel like that is assuming that I didn't. Does that make sense?
How do you guys make decisions? Is it wrong to pray about things, leave the outcome to God and try it?
Ray
BetterServants.com
A community focused on becoming better servants of Christ in ministry and missions through technology and business.
Why we recommend
Ray,
I feel ya. I recommended praying because, honestly, I know a lot of people who don't. Not often enough. And, so often I run into people who don't seek guidance from scripture.
They end up trying to do something for God (which is great) while not asking God what to do and not taking a look at what God has says and His character. Is is wise for a man to go shopping for a present for his wife without paying attention to her desires and not asking her? Nope. I think the same thing applies.
I've done this and seen it happen to many times. So, my gut reaction is to recommend that first. If you are already doing that... more power to ya.
Here is a question... how many people try to honestly discern Gods will for them? I know a lot of people who say they do but how many of them actually do that? How many of them do that in a way the bible teaches? Maybe I'm jaded... I've had a number of Christian friends say that the way to discern Gods will by spending time in nature or meditation while never reading scripture and rarely praying. Are they really looking for his will or are they searching for their own?
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
Prayer ... Seeking deeper answers.
Ray,
When I seek deeper answers, I try to do so in a way that doesn't attach expectations to the search.
It's a pretty personal thing for me, and I'm probably not coming at this from a perspective identical to yours. So, I don't really feel qualified to advise further.
Regards,
Mark
Me too
Mark,
Thanks for the response. I think I also try not to attach expectations (well, I am not very successful sometimes!) becuase I know that ultimately it is what God wants and not what I want, matters. But I don't believe I should always sit around for the writing on the wall if the thing that I am considering doing is, in light of my understanding of God, self and hopefully advice of others, a good (not evil) thing, and important enough in light of other priorities, then I do it, leaving the final outcome to God.
Here is an example from my life. I was missionary overseas for about a year, it took me 6 months to raise $5000 ($400 monthly) of the $10000 I need for that year. I was so discouraged and confused. Does God not wanting me to tell people about Him? Was my purpose to stay at home and continue to be a computer guy? My thinking was sliding toward, "hey, I tried, it didn't work, it is not his will, I guess I will just stay at my comfortable suburbian life". But I had some savings in the bank and as I kept on praying, I had no peace from not going, so I decided to go regardless of what happens.
The amazing thing is that even as I decided this, God started to bring more support so few months into my term, I became fully supported and I met my current wife during training, so that is not too bad either! ;)
Mark, I would like to hear what your thoughts on this is, if it is not too personal. I am sorry if my response has been strong, I am not trying just give my own opinions. I want to hear different perspectives.
Blessings
Ray
BetterServants.com
A community focused on becoming better servants of Christ in ministry and missions through technology and business.
Something I've noticed...
Hey Ray...
I just want to pass along a little practical experience that I've learned over the past couple of years.
People still read websites 100 times more than they post on them.
I've seen this evidenced in blogs, on forums, and in online communities with total consistency. Lots of bloggers know the frustration of blogging and feeling like no one reads their blogs because there are no comments made. What we don't often realize is that for every 50 people that read that blog entry, 1 person might comment...People are not yet used to seeing the internet as a 2 way medium. They still see it as a place to go GET information rather than a place to SHARE information. This is definitely the case on this website (we have thousands more listeners than people that post on this site, as you suggest). Many people listen to the 'cast, many people read the site...but very few post.
So, what's this mean for a startup? It means it's really tough. We feel like G&G has succeeded, not because of the website, but because of something else: The podcast itself. (ie. the audio product). It's easy for people to listen, and we know they're listening...so it keeps us from getting discouraged when we don't get alot of posting activitiy on the site.
Have you thought about basing your website around some extra added content that gives people a reason to visit and take part? Maybe it's a podcast...maybe it's videos....maybe it's screencast training...whatever.
Basically, I've learned that people will only take part in a website when it's MORE than just a website. I think extra-added content (above and beyond) is required these days to make a successful site. Oh...and TIME is required...not in site development necessarily, but in patience...it takes a LONG time to build a community online. So, you gotta start and just keep plugging away without getting discouraged. It took us 2 years so far to build the small community we have at G&G. The turtle wins the race...not the hare.
Hope that helps...stick in there!
-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com
Thanks
Rob,
Thanks for the through response. Others have suggested also that I add more content to the website too. I think initially I didn't want to add too much content because I didn't want the website to be driven by me but it looks like chicken-and-egg, no content->no visitors->no content, so I've installed drupal and trying to get something going with that.
And thanks for the encouragement. I am aiming to keep working at it, no point quitting now. I've started and quit projects before and always regretted it. Have you guys ever read "Good to Great"? It is an awesome book and reminds me some of what we talked about here.
Regards.
Ray
BetterServants.com
A community focused on becoming better servants of Christ in ministry and missions through technology and business.
Share the passion
How about interviews with missionaries and ministry people? From my experience, missionaries are extremely passionate about their ministry, but often they have difficulty communicating the passion. If you could find a way to share that passion, I think the idea would take off.
Yeah!
kswan,
Yeah! I had that thought too! I actually wanted to interview people who are in charge of large ministries and get their take on things so people can learn from each other. It is great to hear that you think the same...
I am slightly hesitant because there is no traffic at my site right now and I wonder if people would bother to do it, but hey, I guess there is no downside in just trying it.
Blessings
Ray
Ray
BetterServants.com
A community focused on becoming better servants of Christ in ministry and missions through technology and business.
Chicken or Egg
Ray,
You have opened up the chicken and egg debate. Do you wait to have traffic to interview someone or do you interview them and that help drive traffic to your site? I know a number of people who want to hold their good stuff until they get traffic. But, isn't it the good stuff that gets you the traffic?
Just a thought. I say interview them if you can.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
Drupal multisite!
I am really not trying to keep bumping my own thread up to the top. :)
I just want to say thanks to everyone for the great feedbacks and I am going to try do a drupal multi-site install this weekend on my host for my two websites: one for connecting missionaries and technies and the other one may change how we think about worship music...(is that teaser enough?)
Merry Christmas
Ray
BetterServants.com
A community focused on becoming better servants of Christ in ministry and missions through technology and business.
always setup for multisite
I've now become a fan of always setting up for a multisite structure. This makes it easy to move your site to any place you ever need to. And, to keep your codebase small.
Good luck setting it up. You should find it to be fairly easy.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com