My church has been using the Soundcraft Spirit FX16 Audio Mixer for about ten years now. We are not a very wealthy church, but we do our best. Last year we incorporated using a projector for notes that our pastor has for his messages and also we use it for our praise and worship music.
For many years, we have recorded messages using a tape player that is connected into our sound board. I know that technology is something that we need to utilize, and that many people have switched from using tapes to CDs.
Our church has a sound room that is located in the back of the sanctuary in an upstairs room that overlooks the crowd. This is where we have our sound board and recording system. We have someone with a laptop that is connected to the projector that sits in the front row. I wish we could find a way to put them up top in our sound room without them having to be in the front row and hang the projector up on the ceiling but I will that is for another topic on this forum. LOL..
Anyways. I am looking for a way to record our services on my laptop (Dell XPS M140, I have no software for any of this so whatever advice is appreciated) so I can stream them if I ever think of a way to start a website for our church and put them on CD's for people so we can give them away.
Thank you for reading.
Cheap and Easy Recording Solution
Well, for a very cheap and easy solution, you'll need to get a cable that can connect your sound board to the 1/8" audio input jack on your laptop. No, this will not provide pro-audio quality sound, but it will be better than the cassette tapes you have now. Your next step up hardware-wise is to get a USB or FireWire audio adapter that will have better audio quality, but using your internal sound card will get you started.
It would also be nice if you could install a compressor between the sound system and the computer, but again, that's more hardware you might want to get later.
Next, go download Audacity from audacity.sourceforge.net. This is a pretty good open-source audio editor. Again, your next step up is something like Cubase or Pro Tools, but it sounds like you're at the proof-of-concept stage, so this can be a good start with minimal investment.
Once you've recorded the messages with Audacity, you may want to spruce them up a bit before exporting them to WAV files and burning to CD. I have some notes that you might find helpful http://chacadwa.com/foh.
Hopefully this will give you a start in the right direction.
Micah
Recording "the room"
My question is related but I need a way to record "the room" and burn CD's. Our mic's, guitar, electronic drums and bass are run through and controlled by the soundboard/tech, while the piano, organ and keyboard are not. We achieve a good mix in the room (probably just lucky based on our size) but our recordings through the soundboard are bad b/c we lose the instruments not running through the board. When we record the room (with just a video camera), we actually get a decent recording. For now, I want to record the room to a laptop using a better quality mic and burn cd's for our shut-in members. Suggestions for laptop, software, mic, CD recorder/duplicator? The reason for the laptop is for the dual purpose of running powerpoint or mediashout to a projector for screen presentation of notes and lyrics in the near future.
A mix?
If possible, I'd recommend tryign to record a mix of both the soundboard and the room. If you can get the balance right with trial and error (assuming that you're recording stereo, not multitrack) this will give you the best of both worlds (crispness/presennce of direct miced stuff, vibe of the room and other missing instruments with room mics).
Really, this is going to be the same setup as any other audio recording (plus a way to mix room/console output, so another little mixer). Otherwise, you could pull this off just dandy with Audacity software, a decent conversion box, and a couple of condenser mics on the room (spread as far apart as possible and hard panned left/right).
Donno if that helps, but that's my quick 2 cents.
-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com
Here's what we do
Don't know if this is helpful or not, but we hung one of those pencil thin choir mics from our ceiling to acheive just about the same thing. We don't run it through the house (we'd get feedback), but it does run into our board, and then out the direct out on the back of the channel.
If you don't have direct outs on your board, you could use an open aux bus to have a separate mix. During your sound check, after the soundman mixes the monitors and house, he/she could mix the aux bus for the recording. Then you take the aux out into your recording device. We don't do this on our recordings, but we do use this technique for our nursery monitors. It works, but it's not stereo.
Slightly off-topic, and I know you didn't ask this, but just to give you a heads up: CCLI allows you to use the songs in it's catalogue on cds of the service, but you can't put them on a podcast, unless it's a song someone in your congregation wrote. Also, if someone sings a special off of a cd or tape, church's aren't even allowed to put them on CDs, much less podcasts. (Sorry if this is unwanted info!)
Anthony Pero
Minister of Music
Lima First Assembly of God
http://www.limafirstag.com/
http://www.anthonypero.com/
http://www.fouronefourproducti...
All mixes are not created equal
Anthony's solution reminds me of how we did things back in our old sanctuary. We had a direct line out of the bass amp and a PZM mic mounted in front of the drums. Neither of these would ever go into the house mix, but they did go into the aux mix for recording, etc.
On our current setup, we use matrix outputs to send different mixes out. For example, our recording, cry room, etc, mix is just the FOH mix with a little extra from the choir groups added (so that more of the choir mics go into the recording than into the house.)
Micah
I agree
Yeah, we don't record off the busses, I was just suggesting that as an alternative for a less expensive board. We have 2 motu 2408s, so I can track 16 channels off the board if we're doing a recording for worship. Most of the time, however, we just capture the pastor's mic and the overhead mic for crowd noise. Then I EQ them separately and mix them. I don't mix to stereo cause I don't see the point without the music, most of which would be illegal on our podcast. I guess we could hang a second mic over the congregation, but it seems overkill to me.
Anthony Pero
Minister of Music
Lima First Assembly of God
http://www.limafirstmedia.com/
http://www.anthonypero.com/boo...
http://www.worshipnexus.org
audio interface, Motu 828 MK3, opinions
Greetings all,
I am trying to find an optimum solution. I am zeroing in but would like confirmation of my thoughts and better alternatives in a similar price range if they exist.
The Motu 828 MK3 seems to fill most of our needs but there are a few concerns. They are:
No downloadable manual is available - what is Motu afraid I will find in there? Are they so cheap or on such weak financial footing that they are worried about charges for the bandwith consumed by manual downloads? If offering a PDF manual is too much, what shortcuts did they take in the hardware and software to cut costs? Only 1 reverb circuit - I think I would like more than one. This may not be a reasonable requirement arising from my lack of experience. A 'closed' architecture. This is on principle. Open would allow Linux drivers and also allow abandonment of the product by the mfr. to be dealt with more easily.
This is what we are looking for:
Basic needs:
>Add house sound to recording mix and nursery, etc.
>Phantom powered inputs to support at least 2 house mics.
>Internal mixing capabilities.
>Firewire or USB output audio stream for recording on PC.
>Some 'dsp processing' capability for compression, EQ, >Limiting, other effects, etc.
>Analog limiting of inputs - last resort to prevent overload of ADC.
>Day-to-day ease of use.
>It should come up on a default but programmable config and have easily selected presets.
>Reverb capability.
>At least 6 analog in and out pairs.
>MS and Mac OS compatibility - Linux would be even better.
>An easy to use computer side interface that will not become useless with an os update etc.
>A light load on the PC.
>Some system-wide presets I can configure that are saved in non volatile memory in the box.
>No need to use computer to have any functions except recording (of course) work.
Assuming an external box, some addional wants on it:
On the front panel:
>Meters that can be assigned to the record ouput.
>Reasonable function in meters - not just signal and overload lights.
>Controls on the front panel usable to tweak record output also quick selection of preset configs.
>Clear easy to understand interface controls probably to include text display for standalone setup.
>No need to read and understand binary, octal or hex numbering systems to use front panel effectively:-)
>One handed operation. No press and hold one button while manipulating another.
>Rack mounted 1U best.
>Most if not all analog I/O on back panel.
I have probably left out some important details but this is a start.
Comments appreciated.
Peter
We have a low budget church
We have a low budget church ourselves. Out in the boonies and all. :) For the longest time we were using a tape recorder as well. Now we use the Maudio for recording our tracks along with a decent headset microphone. I then transfer the audio (wav format) to a flash drive and take it home and edit it using a simple wave editor and garageband. I really dont edit much other than trim the start and end of the audio. I do use Channel Strip for Garage Band plugin. Thats pretty much it. It does a decent job. You can listen yourself to some of the audio HERE.
For Windows a recording app that is both low cost and good quality is Total Recorder Pro. I used that consistently on windows before I switched to macs. For mixing audio and also recording also look into Propaganda. Both have free demos available.
Good advice
I just wanted to chime in and say both of these posts so far are excellent advice. I tend to agree with Micah at this point because you can get it going for next to nothing. Buy a cable that will go from RCA to 1/8" (long enough to reach your laptop) and download hte free audacity software....and you're done.
For a quick, cheap, and easy solution, this is a winner.
-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.bobchristenson.com
Has anyone ventured into pro-audio recording for there services?
Hey all,
I am just wanting to know if anyone uses any type of Digital recording systems for the church? i am looking at setting up something to record each track by itself. I have used pro-tools in a studio setting were u may be only using 16 tracks @ a time but i am needing 28+ tracks of recording at a time...and I also lookin @ using a logic system with maybe some presonus firepods or something....anyone with any ideas would be great...jake sanders
After The Weekend
I can't really speak intelligently on this but, I'd suggest hitting this topic up again after the weekend when the audio guys are around.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
Pretty much the same...
Hey Jacob...
Yup, I've done this, two ways:
1. Split all your signals and just use a totally separate setup to record (actually splitting your mic inputs and using a 'recording' console and a 'live' console separately. This is ideal as it gives you more control over EQ, compression, levels, etc going to tape.
2. Most people will use the same board/setup for live/recording to do this though...and your setup is going to be pretty much the same as a studio setup. You'll just pipe your board's direct outs (assuming you're using a board that has them) into the channels of your interface and you're good to go. To do it with pro tools would get a bit expensive because you'd have to use their pro interfaces ($$$) in order to get the inputs you'd need. A logic system with MOTU (or other) interface should work just fine as well.
If you're anything like me, it won't be the setup that's difficult or frustrating in this...it will be the difference between a controlled studio setting and a 'by the seat of your pants' atmosphere of a live situation that's the real concern.
Good luck with this, report back with your results!
-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com
Using ProTools
I use a PC and MOTU for recording services, but I thought DgiDesign made a box in the $1000-$1200 price range that could run on mac and pc and came with pro tools LE. It may only have four inputs, but I'd imagine it still has scsi or lightpipe connections. You can buy 8 channel DA's with lightpipe out nowadays for under a thousand. Some combination therof should allow you to use pro-tools, if your heart is set on it. Also, M-Audio is making interfaces for under a thousand that use Pro-Tools LE.
Anthony Pero
Minister of Music
Lima First Assembly of God
http://www.limafirstmedia.com/
http://www.anthonypero.com/boo...
http://www.worshipnexus.org
Go big or go home
My experience with pro tools and that many tracks is as follows (feel free to disagree):
When you're dealing with more than about 24 tracks on PT LE you're going to start to have a headache (especially live, where there's no room for 'DAE Engine Crapped out because...well...It's LE" error messages. I know this will also be a similar situation when using "pro tools m-powered" which is the M-Audio stuff. Basically, my experience with Pro Tools at that level is "Go Big or Go Home"...I've found it not worth the headache to try and stretch LE like that.
I think, at that point, even I (a pro tools fanatic) would probably go with a Logic based solution. You can get the hardware that's intended to do it for a more affordable cost...unless of course you have $50k+ to blow on a PT HD system that'll do it ;)
Just my 2 cents...
-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com
Oh, I don't disagree
I recorded a whole album for someone on their m-box once, and once the track count hit about 20, I started running into problems. i was just saying if their married to the idea of pro-tools, it was an option. I'll probably never go that route cause I build PCs, so I'm married to the PC, for better or worse. ;) If I can spend $500 a year and keep my computer top notch with an upgrade path and schedule, then that's what I'm gonna do.
Anthony Pero
Minister of Music
Lima First Assembly of God
http://www.limafirstmedia.com/
http://www.anthonypero.com/boo...
http://www.worshipnexus.org
Similar Approach Here, Too
As an update to what I posted on this thread last year, we now do something similar to what Rob Feature mentioned about Pro Tools.
Pretty much all of the recording we do at and around our church (beyond Audacity, which we still use in some places) has been with Steinberg's Cubase and MOTU gear, although a couple of guys running their own studios have sent their MOTU rigs out for third-party hardware upgrades.
We've run into the same issue where recording a high number of channels leads to either degraded audio quality or complete meltdowns, but we're getting acceptable recordings for our particular needs (which include non-technical issues that I won't go into here.)
Our current configuration, since some time last fall, is to record the FOH mix of every service as a stereo track in Cubase. For services where we want better music recording, we also record all of the tracks individually. We've recorded these pre-fader in the past, but are currently grabbing them post-fader, with a template designed for rapid turnaround in post-production. (So far, it's not rapid enough, and most of the time, we just use the two-tracks to make review copies for the worship team.)
For our most serious attempt at a good recording, we recorded everything live, and then replaced the vocal tracks in the studio, then re-recorded the choir. That came out pretty good, but there was a mismatch between band and vocals, and I didn't think the result sounded quite realistic.
For my last quick-mix, I started from my FOH mix and added a little from some individual tracks to pretty it up. That wasn't too bad, either, considering the amount of time spent on it.
I think that realistically, I'd approach this the same way that Rob and MF approached web design in episode 80. Decide what you want to accomplish, and determine what is most important among scope, quality, cost, and turnaround time, then budget and purchase accordingly. Scale your initial investment of finances and time to match your goals.
Try to find used stuff to match your needs on eBay. A lot of people are going the route of starting small and upgrading, and our studio guys have gotten nearly all the hardware they're using, and everything we're using at the church, for great deals, trading their own stuff out as they went.
Micah
What we do/Idea
At our church we have a separate sound board that is just for mixing our live stream and Cd's and that dumps to a multitrack recorder (For those wondering we use two Otari 48-Channel Digital Audio Disk Recorder DR-100's) for the individual tracks and then the overall mix is dumped to a tascam CD/tape recorder. The CD and tape from CD/tape recorder is what we then give to people that want copies. You can do this with just a matrix or aux out that goes to the CD/tape recorder like a tascam or similar. That would probably be the easiest I think.
--
Ben Haan
Web Developer/Webmaster/Production Volunteer
Resurrection Life Church
www.benhaan.com
Outboard Solution
Thanks for coving the giant gap in my brain, Ben...you're exactly right...
Somehow this 'traditional' solution slipped my mind (I was in Pro Tools mode). I think what you suggest is actually the best way to go...Grab a couple used Otaris or some ADATs or some other outboard solution and skip multitracking to computer all together. Then, fly it into PT later if you need to edit, etc.
Good stuff.
-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com
Outboard Recording
Hi Ben,
Good to see someone from Res Life on here. There is some really phenomenal music coming out of your church! (I'll also admit that when we first started putting our sermons online, I used Pastor Duane's messages as a reference to get my mp3 settings dialed in.) I need to check back to see what you're doing now, although every time our staff comes back from your January leadership conference, I get a bigger to-do list already. :-)
Anyway, I'd love to be able to do more outboard mixing in real-time. We have done the DVD audio for our Christmas drama this way for the past couple of years. All the music is pre-recorded anyway. We run 20+ wireless mics for this production, and we tried recording individual tracks, cleaning up and then resynching everything to the video. What a nightmare, and not quite worth it. Now we run a mixture of individual tracks and groups into an outboard mixer, and have somebody mixing that on the fly. We send that to the video team, who is live switching cameras, too. They also run tapes in every camera, so they can do some cleanup in post if necessary. The end result is not much different, and we can get the DVD out before Christmas, instead of before Easter!
Micah
Looking for CD recorder
I am having trouble locating a simple and basic cd recorder. I know there are alot of high end options all I am looking for is a cd recorder that can handle RCA input and record to a cd for our church service. Any suggestions or places to look?
I haven't...
... seen anything with a MSRP under $500.
Anthony Pero
Minister of Music
Lima First Assembly of God
http://www.limafirstmedia.com/
http://www.anthonypero.com/boo...
http://www.worshipnexus.org
Tascam CD-RW700
We've been using the Tascam CD-RW700 for most of our CD recording since 2001. They sell for around $500. We currently have three of them, and while I won't say they've been completely without problems, they've been reasonably reliable. (Had one circuit board failure, probably due to power problems, that we repaired. One of them now records fine, but won't play back.)
They're RCA or S/PDIF interface. When we've needed two masters, we do RCA in and then fiber between two units, and then control them both with the same remote.
There's nothing really spectacular about them, but they seem to have been a good buy.
Micah