There are probably several ways that people are doing this. They may not all be complying with copyright laws. You should check out WingClips.com.

I have never used their service, but my church gets spam from them all the time. As I understand the service, they have clips of movies that you can download and use. They take care of the copyright issues. They also categorize the clips based on themes.

With your Dell laptop, you can use Windows Media Player or iTunes to play the clips from your laptop to a projector.

It sounds like you are apologizing for using Windows. There are a lot of mac-fans here, which is great, but Windows can get most jobs done if you know how. Use what you have and make the most of it.

If your computer includes a DVD drive, you could also cue up the scene from the DVD and then play the clip you want to use.

John
john-simons.com

What I'm about to lay out here isn't directed at you irish-wake, but hopepfully you find it helpful. I wanted, instead, to give out some general info and give this community a 'heart check' on the issue of copyright. So, while it's intense, it's meant as a blanket statement, and a challenge for all of us to do the right thing....that being said:

First, let me say that copyright law is VERY complicated, and I can't possibly explain it all here. But, let me give you a few guidelines, since you've asked. I'm a big believer in the fact that churches, more than anyone, should be careful with copyright law...ignoring it is such an easy way to look like the hypocrites that the world says we are. Don't prove them right. (I can't tell you how many churches I've been to that break copyright law...if I weren't a Christian already, I'd see it as proof that they're hypocrites).

1. People try and justify breaking copyright law anyway they can, because, well, they want to. It's much easier to break copyright because it means you can do whatever you want.
If you talk to people and they say things like "fair use" or "you can use up to x-minutes of footage and it's ok" or "you're not making money on it, so it's ok"...they're either ignorant or lying. In order to show any clips (by certain movie studios) churches should have a CVLI License. These allow churches to play certain movie clips for certain movie studios. There's lots of info in that link.

If you don't have a license, you can't play any kind of clips at all.

2. It is never (and I mean never) legal to play movie clips off anything except the original DVD/VHS. CVLI allows you to play the movie clips, but doesn't allow you to make a copy, rip it to a computer, or edit it in any way (this includes muting out swear words, unless you do it "live" by turning down the volume at the exact time).
So, if you see someone playing copywritten material off a computer hard drive, they're doing it illigally.

So, the moral of the story is: Make sure you have a CVLI license, and only play the movies off the original DVD.

Now, that's the hardcore stuff...there IS a potential loophole where you wouldn't need a CVLI license (but would still have to play off the original DVD). If it's in a "educational setting" (worship services aren't this...but a bible class might be). I think, in good conscience you could probably play things in a bible class (for education purposes) that you couldn't use in a worship service....but that's a personal call.

Now, I sound pretty hardcore about all this stuff...and I am (because I don't want the church to break laws that make us look no different than "the world)...but in the end, it's up to you. I hope everyone who asks these questions searches their heart and asks themselves if they really think God will work through us when we are breaking the law....

Ok, that's it...speech/info-dump over....

-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com

Checking out your wingclips recommendation led me to http://www.worshiphousemedia.com/
Thats a pretty cool site and might have some stuff there for Noah.

Rob

I agree totally with your assessment that, of all people, Christians should be law abiding when it comes to stuff like copyright laws. It is all too easy to have "copies" of songs or software that have not been paid for. The fact that everybody else is doing it does not make it right... especially since Christians are judged by a higher law that commands us to obey the laws of our land. God demands for us to be law abiding citizens so that our light does shine on the hill, so that we are salty to others.

However, I think there are legal options for ministries using "fair use" that you seem to indicate would not be legal.

The US legal code gives four factors that must be considered before a use of copyrighted material can be deemed "fair use".

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

2. the nature of the copyrighted work;

3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

You say that it is never legal to play movie clips off anything except the original DVD/VHS, however I don't think that jives with what the legal code says about fair use when it says...

"...the fair use of copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."

This says that you can make a copy of something... in fact for educational purposes you can make multiple copies and hand them out.

You say that there "might" be a loophole where you wouldn't need a CVLI license (I am assuming you are talking about the "fair use" guidelines I have listed above) for educational purposes, but that you probably couldn't use in a worship service.

I don't think it would be difficult to defend using "fair use" practices in church services because the services are not just about "worship music" but also about teaching the word of God. The office of pastor/teacher, the platform speaker/teacher, the edification of the saints is a regular common practise of churches in their "worship services".

It is important to read the US House Report Notes on Section 107 of the "Fair Use" laws. They state:

"...they give some idea of the sort of activities the courts might regard as fair use under the circumstances... reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson..."

To me this would clearly allow churches to make a reproduction of a small part of the work to illustrate a sermon.

Recently there have been court rulings that have shed some additional light and leeway on "fair use".

In 1994 the courts indicated that a critical consideration in evaluating most (if not all) of the above 4 factors, is whether the use can be considered "transformative" - whether it "adds something new, with a further purpose of different character..." If that is the case, the first factor can weigh in favor of fair use even if the use is "commercial" in character.

Using a movie clip to illustrate and teach a biblical truth is definitely "transformative", adding something new with a further purpose of different character. The church's goals and agenda for using that clip is to make fully developed followers of Jesus Christ. That is certainly not what the original directors intended.

This has led to a recent case in 2006 where the Federal Second Circuit Court of Appeals notes that "most fair uses are conducted for profit." (This was a huge shock to me but illustrates how much leeway has recently been given to "fair use", even for point 1 listed above.)

This was in a case where "fair Use" laws were used and successfully defended when an author/publisher used copyrighted photos of the Grateful Dead that they had not received permission to use.

Rob, I agree with you that the copyright laws are not easy to wade through, but in recent years there has been quite a bit of progress in developing "fair use" practices for teachers, students, documentary film-makers,etc...

As for the whole CVLI license concept... it just feels like a money grab to me. You will notice on their webpage they state. "but all of these church workers MAY BE (emphasis mine) unknowingly breaking the law." I find it interested that they didn't say "ARE" breaking the law. Perhaps because as a legally well informed company they know it would not be the truth to say that. That's just my cynical thoughts on the topic of CVLI.

From what I understand of the copyright fair use laws... you don't need CVLI to show short clips. You would need it to show entire movies, but that is not the question in this forum thread.

Having said all that... I could be wrong in all this... but I would have to be shown by some legal text not just people's opinions.

Some excellent reading for what I have just listed above:

Fair Use Copyright Law
http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc...

House Notes on Fair Use Copyright Law
http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc...

code17/usc_sec_17_00000107----000-notes.html

Center for Social Media Motion Picture Fair Use notes pdf
http://www.centerforsocialmedi...

Even though I believe it's legal to use movie clips to illustrate sermon points, it still takes a lot of time to find the clips, create a copy, perhaps tastefully add a verse or two, or maybe even make a montage of movie/tv clips about a certain theme. It would be really cool if there were a ministry out there that did all that leg work for churches and all they had to do was download the file to use. Especially if that service was free.

Now that would really fill a niche, especially for smaller churches and youth ministries. Hmmm...

Well... that's all I'm going to say right now.

Mark Fogarty

Hey Mark...
Great info, here...thanks for sharing.

All of the info I know (which is the basics) was obtained from lectures about all of this at the arts conference at Willow Creek Church. They employ lawyers to wade thru all this stuff and obtain the correct permissions. They talked extensively about all the things you allude to here and came to the legal conclusion that copyright clearance was needed in almost all cases they encountered at their church (this means obtaining a license of some kind or getting direct permission for the author of the materials)

I'm not inclined to think that a chuch of this size, with this experience, and this level of expertise would do all of this if it was not required by law.

I used to think many of the things you laid out here, but have been convinced otherwise. I'll try and find a link to it, but I've read multiple times that worship services have been deemed to NOT be educational use in the courts...that's why CVLI exists. Also, I've read many arguments of why "Fair Use" doesn't apply, but I can't remember them all. I'll see if I can search for that as well.

Most importantly, I've heard it correctly stated that "Fair Use" isn't a law...it's something that you claim WHILE ALREADY IN COURT. Do we want to do all this hoping that our fair use 'claim' will hold up in court, which is deemed on a case by case basis? Let's just do the right thing and avoid court all together, don't you think?

This is, as we agree, nearly impossible to wade thru. But in the end, isn't it better to err on the side of caution when we don't know if our church is breaking the law or not?

I'll list some related links in this comment as I find them:
http://www.brotherhoodmutual.c...
http://www.cofchrist.org/legal...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...

-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com

Rob

Thanks for your info... it forces me to re-evaluate my point of view to see if it is valid and defend able.

When you talk about getting much of your info from a Willow Creek Arts conference several questions and comments come to my mind.

These questions and comments are not meant to be sarcastic, or cast doubt on what you've heard... I just feel I need more information in order to evaluate their current validity.

Some of the questions you will not be able to answer, but they are ones that come to my sometimes cynical, stubborn mind.

1. How long ago was this information taught to you at Willow Creek?

2. Their presentation/pov was based on legal advice from what date? I realize you can't answer that but there has been quite a bit of movement on the concept of fair use in recent years.

If you went to the conference two years ago, and they were using legal advice they had received two years previous... the advice is missing 4 years of legal advances and rulings in the area of "fair use".

I have learned over the years that there are A LOT of stuff you can learn from the mega churches, but that does not mean they are infallible or perfect in all they do. It isn't always a mega church that blazes a new path.

There is no doubt that the concept of "fair use" is a flexible, evolving concept. As a result I think it's dangerous to say we can't do this or we can't do that because of what was going on in the past. We need to be current with our facts and in our culture so that we can take every legal, ethical or moral advantage available to build His kingdom.

When you say that you've read that worship services have been deemed to NOT be educational, I would want to see some sort of documentation that is more then the opinions of some well-meaning blogger. (That's the cynical side of me). There are no shortage of urban myths in Christianity.

Speaking of which... can anybody point me to a document that lists the specific details (dates, courts, defendants, plaintiffs, etc...) of where a ministry tried to use the "fair use" provision and was not successful?

You also mention that "Fair Use" isn't a law... that may technically be true... but it clearly is a provision within a law. One that the courts have provided to give opportunity and provide balance between the Freedom of Speech and Copyright Protection. It is there to be used. It's difficult/sad that the set-up is such that you might have to prove your claim in court... but that is because each application of the provision is not the same.

What a blessing it would be for churches that it was found in court to be totally legal for them to show short video clips as illustrations for sermons. That is not going to happen unless somebody pushes for clarity on the subject.

There has been much work done in recent years to set up standards that the courts and industry will accept. Even though it talks about documentary film makers, I would highly suggest you read the document "Documentary Filmmaker's Statement of Best Practices in Fair Use". Some of the same principles of how the courts view "fair use" would apply in other situations.

http://www.centerforsocialmedi...

Our ministry is looking at how we can leverage the power of this document to be able to create media including copyrighted material that would benefit other churches.

Wow, I didn't think that using a movie clip from a DVD was so complicated. My class only has 5-10 kids, but I guess showing them a clip before my study isn't the right thing to do.

Hey man...
Hope we didn't overwhelm with info...it's just a really complicated issue. I think, in the end, you have to gather all the facts you can, and then make the call.

Hope our discussion didn't discourage you to look further into the issue!

-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com

Wow, did I start this with my one passing comment on copyright? Or is irish-wake to blame for this one.

The reason I recommended that he check out WingClips is that they claim to get copyright releases for the clips that they distribute. In other words, they take care of the copyright headache.

Here is the quote from their FAQ:

Do I need a CVLI license to use these clips for public showing?

No. WingClips™ has already obtained permission from the movie studios, distribution companies, and/or filmmakers for you to use our WingClips™ for public showings, so long as you adhere to all terms and conditions as stated in the WingClips™ Subscriber License Agreement.

As for the debate (discussion?) between Rob and Mark on whether fair use applies to churches, I tend to agree with Mark based on what I have seen over the years. Rob - if you are aware of a case that states that a church is not entitled to fair use, I would like to see it. The statute is very bland on what consitutes fair use, and for a court to rule that a church use of a clip does not constitute education, commentary or criticism seems to fly in the face of logic, legal or otherwise. However, you are right the value of a license (or permission) is that you don't have to worry about getting a cease and desist letter, or even worse a summons and complaint.

For a funny look at fair use, check out: this video on YouTube.

Please note, this comment should not be construed as legal advice and does not create an attorney-client relationship.

John
john-simons.com

I don't want to belabor this point....I think we all have to do what we think is right.

Personally, I've run across multiple links, and heard lectures over the years from well known resources that have reaffirmed that these fair use provisions don't apply to churches. They're sources that I, personally, wil trust. I have yet to hear a big, trusted organization say that fair use applies to churches, so until then, I just don't think it's safe to hold that opinion. (again, though, I think it's up to the individual church or worship leader to make the final call)

Here's a few links that assert that Fair Use doesn't apply to churches:

http://www.willowcreek.com/WCA...
http://www.churchca.com/puzzle... (click #5)
http://crt.umc.org/interior.as...
http://www.gbod.org/worship/de...
http://www.experiencingworship...
http://www.ccli.com/US/WhatWeO...

-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com

Rob -

Thanks for the references. I will try to check it out. If I get a chance I may post on this at my blog. FWIW, the two or three that I looked at seem to be making money off of selling licenses, or giving "safe" advice to a large group of people. On using a song in worship, there is no doubt that you have to get a license. I know that there is a federal copyright case on that issue.

Where I have a question is on using a short movie clip. To play a substantial part of a movie, you need a license. The question is, how much is fair use? That it is why it is safer to just tell people to get a license. That is also why I recommended the site that I did, it takes care of licensing so that you know you are in compliance.

John
john-simons.com

I know the church building is considered a public venue, but what is the law about having 10 people over to your house for popcorn and to watch the Chronicles of Narnia or somthing.

Once it becomes an event in the home, does that count as private home use, and legal?

In law school, one of my professors quipped that the answer to all good legal questions is: "it depends." It is a very true statement.

Here is the grey area: If you are inviting friends over for popcorn and a movie, you are probably within the license granted for home use videos.

If a church is hosting a party, and advertises it, but does it at your house then watching the whole movie probably violates copyright because it has probably become a public performance.

Last year about this time, the NFL and Fox got all up in arms when a church advertised a Super Bowl party. They sent a cease and desist letter claiming that the party violated the license for Super Bowl viewing. They later relented that there was fair use, as long as the size of the screen was kept within a certain limit, and I think there were some other limits that they suggested. The church canceled the event.

This comment is not legal advice. Rely on it at your own risk.

John
john-simons.com

Ran across this podcast about church copyright that iamanoffering tagged for us on del.icio.us....GREAT podcast on this issue:

http://www.creativesynergypodc...

-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com

Now you would probably know better than I, but I believe that the issue with copying the original DVD is the DMCA. In order to make a copy, you have to circumvent the copy protection. I'm not sure if this applies to the copy protection on VHS or not. (On DVDs, the copy protection is Content Scrambling System, or CSS, and on on VHS it's Macrovision.)

John,
Great question. You have been given a wealth of responses. As mentioned, you should not use video clips in class unless you have a video showing license. There is a license for churches, much like the CCLI license for using projected song lyrics during worship.
Here is another idea; FUEL is a DVD supported Bible study curriculum for students (7th-12th grades) available from LifeWay. The first two years of FUEL cover 96 stories in the Bible (one year in Old Testament and one year in New Testament). The second two years of FUEL cover topics related to owning our faith. Check it out.
www.lifeway.com/students