There is a big difference between web applications and web pages. I use tomcat, java and jsp and develop on jdeveloper running on linux for the tomcat application server. Maybe there are people developing web pages when what they really want is a web application. Also, how about some suggestions on how to check your web apps on different browsers on different os's. I use virtualbox on linux with win2k and ie 5.5 running on one vm, win2k ie 5.0 running on another vm, winxp with ie 6.0 and winxp with ie 7.0. This is how I make my web apps degrade nicely. Great show by the way :). And b4 you flame my site http://www.ccccares.org there is version 2.0 on its way!
web apps
You are right, there are a lot of people who want web apps instead of web pages. Before people dive into this, I suggest they learn about not only graceful degradation but information assurance/security.
To test for graceful degradation I use VMWare on a mac. I don't test all the way back to IE5. Is anyone still using that? Though, I imagine it is still a good idea to test to that level for any decently trafficed site. Especially, if it's not targeted at geeks.
VMWare with older versions of Windows running older browsers is the method I use to test. Is there a better way? If so, I'd love to hear about it. All testing doesn't have to be browser based. That is really what is needed for the CSS and javascript. The in browser parts. If the pages follow xhtml they should display in some form and the server side should function for each browser. Some good testing can be done with packages like simpletest (for php). For javascript there is jsunit but I have not tried it before.
For me, most of my web app has been in php, mysql, and javascript. Some of it i because I have grown comfortable with it and part of it is because that was my best option of the options.
Any other web app devs want to chime in?
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mattfarina.com
web apps
Actually I test back to ie5 because according to my logs I still have some ie5 users out there. I wrote a javabean that browser sniffs the user-agent header and degrades down to ie3 up to ie7 and gecko based browsers as well as spiders. I also wrote a css switcher javabean that sends the css that matches the browser calling the app which is really important for things like using transparent png's if the browser supports it or ugly transparent gifs if they don't.
For code testing I use the debugging built into jdeveloper. I try to stay away from javascript except for ajax stuff where you have to use it. I have never ever ever even looked at PHP for more than 3 minutes but I figure there must be a reason why everybody is using it. And of course I use the firefox extensions for the css stuff. I tried wine-ing ie 5.5, 6.0 but it just didn't work like the real thing.
By the way you can run safari on windows now so I finally see what my web pages look like in that browser.
Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62
2 reasons for php
I think there are really 2 reasons for the popularity of php.
1) It's everywhere. An overwhelming majority of hosts have it which means that it's easy for your average joe to use. For me, Java isn't an option. It would cost too much/lock me into a host.
2) It's really built for the web. They try to make doing standard web things easy. In perl to send an email takes about 5 lines of code. In php it's 1. It's built around making web pages.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mattfarina.com
hummmm
Maybe I'll have to give it another look one day.
Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62