A few things:

First, you have not been preaching here. You have been shouting short points that are hot topics in a way that alienates people. The use of bold text, the short points, and other comments are not preaching... they are shouting. Huge difference.

Second, your approach alienates people and does not build support around a topic. I've never seen anyone effectively post in a forum like that. People don't want to support talk and approach like that. It's not loving to others. It smells of judgement and superiority. As the bible points out, we are all sinners who deserve punishment and we are not to judge others. It's only by Christ that we are anything other than that. We have no right to judge, treat people poorly, or think we are superior. On our own we are no better than whores, drug dealers, or murders. It's only by Christ that we are anything.

Third, sadly, I don't know that you'll be missed here. If you treat others the way you treated us I feel for them. We are to serve and love others. You're posts were self serving and didn't build others up (a command in the bible).

I wish you the best of luck and I pray you learn to treat others with love, respect, and kindness.

I guess I should visit more often. I must have missed something.

:)

gloryland, i understand where you are coming from. as Christians, if we feel that something secular is turning or COULD turn anti-Christian, we need to take our stand quickly. if we don't, that's where the oil begins to mix with water and we head towards the horrible sin of relaxing our Christianity in order to be congenial.

matt, i understand where you are coming from. we don't want to come across so sensitive and anti-everything that we become an exclusive club where we all think 100% alike and any non-conformers are cast out.

gloryland, you will be missed. as hard as it is for some people to accept, we need to be diligent and militant in standing firm in what we believe and what we see happening in the world. if we simply let things go because we don't want to stir the waters and don't want to come across as unloving (difficult balance here), then we start taking prayer out of school, aborting our babies, etc.

yes, extreme example as compared to cartoons and sexual preferences, but all i am saying here is - i understand you gloryland and pray you never lose your passion.

Taking a stand would be a bad idea. Let me explain why before anyone disagrees with me on principle.

When you take a stand on an issue, like the one previously discussed, it immediately turns into one side against the other. When that happens have you seen people change their minds on their side of the issue? I haven't. That's when behavior changes to focus on defending your side. When this happens the focus on God is lost.

I constantly remind myself that the co-mission in Matthew 28:19-20 is to make disciples. It is not to force people to follow our moral code. It's not to take stands on arguable issues in children's cartoons. Those don't show people Christ and what he did for is. If anything, it makes people not want to listen to us.

I recently learned, from a study by a major church body, that the primary reason people get abortions is poverty. Sure, there are a lot of reasons but, this is the primary. The bible tells us to love others. Take a minute and read 1 Corinthians 13. Love is not rude. Love is not easily angered. Love protects. If a group stands outside an abortion clinic to turn people away but don't go out and serve them (Gods loved people) than they are acting in the interest of spreading their ideas and not loving people. We ignore suffering people who are in pain.

Instead of taking a stand on the issues we need to live as one saved by God, we need to love others, and we need to share Christs love for us. Living as one saved by God means being humble and thankful. We don't deserve it. Instead of telling others what to do let's show them what love is.

If anyone thinks taking stands on the issues is a good idea take a look at the numbers. There have been studies upon studies on these types of things. They aren't effective at making disciples which is our mission. The church in the west is dying and we are going down swinging. Instead of swinging why not show others a little love.

There is one stand I will make. Christ is my savior.

@td I'm not casting anyone out. But, we need to act in love. Especially to non-Christians. We need to be firm in our faith. But, we can't force the world to do what we want. God doesn't force us to do things his way. Instead he loves and saves. Why don't we follow that example.

Thank you for replying to this post,my Brother in Christ.

People like you and I must take a stand for our faith,and it must not be water down.

Religions CAN NOT Save your SOUL"

What about other religions?
There are many religions in the world. They do not all teach the same thing. In fact, many of them contradict each other. So, they can't all be true and it cannot be said that each is a different path to God. What are we to say about all those other religions compared to Christianity? To get to the point, all other religions besides Christianity are false.

If Jesus is who He said He was, God in flesh, then whatever He says is authoritative and true. He said that He was the way the truth in the life and that nobody comes to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). Right there,we see that any other way, according to Jesus, is not true.

Christianity bases its truth and its doctrine on the word of God, the Bible. In the word of God, Jesus claims to be the only way. Since He performed many miracles, raised people from the dead, commanded a storm to be still and it obeyed, healed diseases, and rose from the dead Himself, then we are forced to face the reality of His words. Is what He said true or not? Either Jesus is a liar, a lunatic, or He is Lord. No one else in history, except Jesus, has fulfilled detailed prophecies, performed many miracles before eyewitnesses, and risen from the dead. Jesus is unique.

For those of us who are Christians, we have trusted what Christ has said. We believe in what He said and did. Like it or not, Jesus is the one who said He was the only way. It is not the Christians who are being "narrow-minded." It is Jesus. Therefore, to say that other religions can be true means that Jesus is false. To say that there are other ways to God, also means that Jesus is false. This is what it comes down to. Either Jesus is who He said He was and what He said is true, or He is false. This is a choice you must make. To trust what He said or reject His words.

Note: Religion can not Save you” Only your faith and who you trust. Not a church that anyone go to or a great preacher can Save you.

For who so ever shall call upon the name of the LORD JESUS Shall be SAVED.

I do not have to leave here, but they might get rid of me" for I am a servant and not a geek.

Thank you tb from E Morales with the glory land.

As Christians, who know Christ and have his salvation, what are we supposed to do now? People have tried to answer this in a lot of ways.

Jesus answered this in 2 places. First, Matthew 22: 37-39 where it says:

Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

The second is in Matthew 28:19-20 where it says:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

So, we are to love God, love others, and make disciples. So, how do we do that?

I remember when I was in college there was a guy who stood out with signs by the math building at the university. He preached about the bible, God, and truth. When I took the time to listen for a moment he said some good stuff. But, when I talked to others I learned that his presentation style pushed them away. In doing things the way he wanted to he pushed people away from hearing the message. Someone sitting down over a meal with those same people, someone they know, having a conversation about some of those same things would have been much more effective at passing the information along.

Every time I start to look at what we do well, as a church, I'm reminded that 97% of church growth is Christians going from one church to another. That about 70% of kids who grow up in the church, including those who attend regularly, walk away from the church. Over 50% of those that leave no longer consider themselves Christians. That agnosticism is growing at a rate of over 700% and atheism is growing at a rate over 200% in the US.

I'm reminded that we don't do evangelism very well. Every metric says it. On the whole, we aren't making disciples.

I've taken some time and talked to a few people who've left the church and Christianity. I've talked to people who don't know Christ. It's a learning experience and much of the time it's Christians getting in the way of the message.

I recently talked to someone who no longer attends church. When I asked her why she told be how she saw it as a place that lacked the kind of love scripture talked about. She talked about how Christians were mean to a gay friend of hers. She game me a list of church dirty laundry.

@Thegloryland you are right that Christ saves. But, how do we effectively share that with others?

Christ used to eat meals with prostitutes, drunks, and other healthy sinners. If he sat down with them and started listing their sins and telling them they are wrong do you think they would have stayed around? I don't. So, how did he do it? How did the apostles do it?

How we convey ourselves tells of our character. How we treat others lays a testament to our love for others. How we live our lives displays a testament to our love and commitment for our maker.

@Thegloryland If you want to effectively share Christ with others how do you think you do that and why would it work?

Matt, i agree. if we do not show love, we are just wasting our breath. without love, genuine true-to-heart i-can-feel-it-coming-out-your-pores love as opposed to i-have-to-love-you-love, then all of our efforts are in vain.

my only concern in not taking a stand and being in firm in beliefs even to the point of offending people is this - if we don't stand firm in our beliefs, when will we stop caving? shelf the sponge bob discussion. instead, let's go to the gay topic.

Bible is clear - gay is bad. Just as bad as my sins, of which i have too many. do i hate them, no. do i love them, yes. can we hang out and have dinner together, sure. if the question comes up or the discussion heads in that way, will i hide my true beliefs, no. i will be nice and polite, but i will be honest. i will explain what the Bible says, not what I came up with.

I have been down this road with family. I was the only Christian and i was cornered into explaining why only Christians go to Heaven. I chose the difficult path of telling it like it is in the Bible. They all got mad and etc. 1 year later, my oldest brother got saved. 1 year after that, my middle brother started attending church and reading the Bible. So i look back and think, what would have happened if I tried to be "nice"?

bottom line is this my friend, we need to be all things to all people. sometimes we need to reach out touch the hurting and leave the Bible thumping for another day and sometimes we need to tell it like it is and pull them away from a horrible eternity.

I agree with standing up for what you believe in even when it's unpopular.

But, take this from the dinner table with people you have a relationship with to a web forum. Moving from those you have a relationship who know you, can see your life, and there is a lot there beyond the words you are speaking in the moment to a forum with people who don't know you then start a topic on homosexuality and say it's bad and we need to make a stand against it. Write the topic in just a few lines.

Now, look at the different in context of how those two situations are handled.

Having a conversion like this over dinner with people you are close to is very different than going into a public place full of people you don't really know and shouting a point you believe. My point is what you illustrate. If we are going to reach out to and talk to people there needs to be more than going out and making stands in ineffective ways. Like, shouting a point in a couple bold lines in a public forum.

Matt Said,

Having a conversion like this over dinner with people you are close to is very different than going into a public place full of people you don't really know and shouting a point you believe. My point is what you illustrate. If we are going to reach out to and talk to people there needs to be more than going out and making stands in ineffective ways. Like, shouting a point in a couple bold lines in a public forum.

I don't thing John the Baptist would agree with your comemts, but maybe that's why he was Killed.

"For preaching the Truth"

Thank you for telling me your truth, that I would not be misssed Here at the GeekForGod Forum?

E Morales with the glory land.

What John the Baptist was called to do and what we are called to do is quite different. He was called to prepare the way for Christ, according to scripture, and we are called into the great commission to make disciples.

Additionally, the cultural context is very different. For example, how you reach people is different for an African tribe, a group in India, people who live in downtown Chicago, and people is rural America. Looking at how someone does something is different than looking at what they do.

Take the culture in India. Ed, who just spent several months in India, pointed out that it's culturally acceptable for 2 straight men to hold hands. That's very different than in America. The way it we think about it when we observe it, the way we react, and the meaning are all different. Context matters. Sometimes I think that's why Jesus didn't heal 2 people the same way. So, we wouldn't look for patterns in how he did and instead focus on that we should do it and look for how in the situation we are in.

Would John the Baptist have done things the same as recorded in the bible if he were in suburban America? Culturally there is a huge difference between a middle eastern man 2,000 years ago and an American today and that cultural context matters.

As far as preaching... who did Jesus preach to? Recorded in the bible we see him preaching to practicing Jews. He's explaining scripture and it's meaning in a way that it impacts their personal lives. At the same time he's serving and healing them. When he's with the prostitutes, drunk, and societal outcasts he doesn't talk the same way. He doesn't act the same way.

According to Matthew 3, John the Baptist was out in the Desert and people went to him. This is another difference that makes this apples and oranges.

I read this post today and I'll like to share it with you and all who reads this post

The Scriptures also declare that in these last days mankind will not endure (stay with) sound doctrine but will want to go with the ear-ticklers. (2 Tim.4: 3). Further, because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (Matt.24 12). Unlike the terms "transgression, wickedness, lewdness and abomination," all of which speak of the vilest, the term "iniquity" refers to the counterfeit. This then is saying that because so much counterfeiting is going on, millions are being deceived because they can't tell the difference. My mother used to warn us thusly: "all that glitters is not gold."

The amount of your education, the size of your church or the importance of your position and/or community popularity have not made you immune from Satan's counterfeit, high-sounding seductions before which others-- even stronger than you-- have fallen.

Did not the "MAN OF GOD" who was specifically told by God to do his job but not to go to anyone's place to eat or drink, prove that? He did his job. He was true to his ordained calling. He then obeyed God as he refused the king's invitation to eat and drink in the palace. He was again true to his ordained calling. He obeyed also by going home on the prescribed road. All the way thus far he is a dedicated fundamentalist role model for younger servants of God who may well have had their eyes on him and secretly desired to be like him.

But now comes the bad news. Another "preacher" who had already left his roots of truth, came to the man of God, supposedly to console him (and of course, "help" him), and invited him to come back to his house to eat and drink. Again, God's good servant was true to his ordained calling. He told the other "preacher" that God had told him he could not go to anyone's place to eat or drink. ("Let God be true and every man a liar." Rom. 3:4).

So the other "clergyman" said: "I am a preacher too, just like yourself, and God told me to invite you into my home for fellowship, eating and drinking." On that basis, the man of God decided to leave God's basics-- (trust and obey) and departed in fellowship with the other "nice preacher."

The Bible says that the "nice preacher" lied to him. Like all of us, he was not immune from Satan's trick-- "spiritual wickedness in high places." (Eph.6:12). That was the end of his ministry. When he left the "nice preachers" house, he was killed by a lion.

Take heed, preacher, the Devil is as an angel of light first and then as a roaring lion secondly, and walks about seeking whom he may devour. (I Pet.5:8).

By the Late Dr. Art Wilson

Thank you, E Morales with http://thegloryland.com

P.S If You have Christ in you, others will want to drink from the well.But if they do not repent also of there Sins, they will thrist again.

Some thoughts on that....

If You have Christ in you, others will want to drink from the well.

Sadly, this isn't true. If it was the Apostles wouldn't have been killed for their faith. If it was the case there wouldn't be stories in the bible of the Apostles being chased out of a town. Yet, here we stand with history. Just having Christ doesn't mean others will want to drink from the well.

The article itself is a bit confusing. Part of it seems to be the dated english. But, people will want to hear what their itching ears want to hear. I do see that.

But, this article doesn't talk about how to reach people who don't know Christ or how to be on guard for things that would pull us away from Gods calling. It attempts to talk at things on a high level but doesn't bring it down to a practical level that would be useful for people.

For example, there is a difference in speaking the truth in love and speaking the truth as a jerk. One is how the bible calls us to speak. The other the bible warns us against. The bible as well as recent studies have shown that how we objectively look at things is tied to how we feel about them. In the world of web design this plays directly into your design. In the world of outreach it means something different.

So, HOW do we speak the truth in love to others? It depends. How I speak the truth in love is different to my wife, my mothers, someone at my church, the agnostic down the street, and a random person I run into. The ultimate truth that matters most is of who Jesus was and what he did. How will each of those receive it best?

Also, 90% of communication is non-verbal. How does the non-verbal communication convey the truth?

TGLs comment said "others", Matt, not all others. In the Reformed tradition he is coming from, God's sovereignty stands above everything else. He draws whom He draws. In his theological tradition, it is the Holy Spirit who draws people to the Truth. "Others" will "drink from the well", in other words, those others whom God has preordained; everyone else will be offended by the Truth.

So once this is your bedrock theological principle, the discussion you are trying to engaging him in becomes pointless, because once he speaks what he views as the truth, and it is rejected, or argued about, you become an unbeliever in his eyes, because you are rejecting the Truth, so the Holy Spirit is not in you. In his mind, you are obviously not one of the Elect, or you'd get it. That's why I'm done responding to his flames from now on.

Blessings,
Tony

Update: This post was updated by an admin at the request of anthonypero.

You go ahead and put the Pad Lock on this Post" like you did to my past post you did not like.

You Guys have the temporary Power to do so.

If you Guys are Saved? I don't know. Only the LORD Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit Knows.

Anthony Pero
Minister of Music

Wrong is to short for your reply to this Post, stick with the music.

I am sorry if I sound to ruff but I am tired of weak Christians putting words in their mouth, that I did not said.

E Morales with the glory land.

gloryland, what happened here? The conversation was going real nice with pleasant disagreement. And then you come out and judge Matt and Tony on their Christianity? Where did you get the power or authority to judge? come on, let's play nice. If we disagree, no problem. We let it go and move on. We are all here on this blogsite for the same ultimate purpose - trying to figure out how to serve Him better. So if we disagree on how we handle the tough issues, then we disagree. None of us is 100% right, ever. Please refrain from the lashing out.

Matt and Tony, on this and other posts we may disagree from time to time. But know this, as a brother in the Lord, I will always respect you. That much you can count on. Why? Again, we are all trying to serve Him and do what He has for us. We have different ministries, different people in our lives, different work for God, and different ways of handling situations - but we are Christians and therefore we are brothers. I really hope to meet you all before we get to Heaven. Maybe I can get to one of the conferences. or look me up if you are in eastern PA.

Later,
tb

Hello and thank you for replying to this post tb,

I can sense the power of the Spirit when you speak, I will shut up now.

Your Friend and Brother in Christ, Edwin Morales with the glory land.

This is the Day that the LORD has made, I'll will be happy and glad in it.

HAVE A NICE DAY

First off, Tony, I'm afraid I didn't much appreciate your characterization of Calvinistic theology. It's very close to offensive. It may be an accurate description of some fringe practitioners, but hardly mainline reformed.

TGL, if you're willing to listen to some constructive criticism, I'd recommend you take Paul's words to heart, from 1 Cor 9:19-23. Good evangelism, as Paul writes, depends on modulating your speech for your audience. Kicking down the door and denouncing everything you see as evil will work with a few people, but connecting with the people where they are, as Paul writes, will form a stronger connection with them, and will therefore serve as a stronger link to bring them to the Lord, which is indeed the object, is it not?

John the Baptist is a fun guy to emulate, I agree. (Played him once, in "One Voice," and man, was it fun to cut loose like that!) But we're called to be like Christ, not the Baptist. Jesus didn't denounce the woman taken in adultery, in fact saved His strong words for those who were constantly trying to trap him and trying to exploit the people in God's name. The people, the offenders He met daily, got kind words from Him, even in correction. See for example the woman at the well, whose sexual immorality He criticized but not until after He'd built a relationship with her with His kindness and love. It's that example we're called to be like; it's why we're called Christians, and not Johannites.

My apologies, Arlen, I said as much to Matt when I had him remove the statement. It was offensive, and I meant it to offend him, which is wrong. I know better than that. I know plenty of Calvinists who don't think that way. It is in no way "typical." Please accept my apology. I'm a four-point reformed believer myself. I need to learn to not post and calm myself for a sufficient period of time before responding. Or better yet, Matt was doing just fine responding, I could have just left him to it.

So I'm clear, when I said "the Reformed tradition he is coming from", I should have said "His view on reformed tradition." That's why I had mMatt removed the part I did. It just isn't true and doesn't characterize what I believe, and I did it to be offensive, which is wrong.

Can you forgive me?

Tony

Easily done. I'm no five-pointer myself (anyone who knows me would get a chuckle out of the thought of me as a Calvinist) but I know plenty of folks who are. It may be I'm a little more sensitive on that topic than most; I used to teach a youth class in a Holiness Movement church (CoG, Anderson to be precise) and we had annual discussions on "neighborhoods in the Kingdom". We all work for the same Jewish Carpenter; we need to understand each other more. If we can't love each other, how can we possibly expect to love the unsaved back to God?

And I'm sorry that I offended you.

Tony