Absoulte Proof of God !
January 5, 2010 - 12:55pm
Proof of creation
This leaves only one alternative:
A Creator !
Something, Somoene outside of the laws of Science – that Created Scientific laws – A God – The most powerful Scientific Mind in the Universe !
This is absolute proof that there is a Creator
I believe there is a flaw in this logic.
I think we Christians could learn from the scientific method. Science, in it's purest form, is not dogmatic. Scientists are often much more comfortable using terms like "perhaps," "likely," and "seems to be" than Christians are. For example, Phrenology was a 19th century belief that the cranial bones formed around the brain in a way which accommodated for mental ability. Thus a person's personality traits could be determined by feeling the bumps on their head. Obviously this theory has been debunked. However, at one time it was what science offered as truth. This serves as a reference that much of current scientific theories will likely be revised as time goes by. A modern day example; theoretically, bumble bees can not fly. However, we have all witnessed them pollinating flowers. This indicates either a) a flaw in our collective observation (which is highly unlikely) or b) an error in our understanding of aerodynamics. Rather then being wedded to outdated ideas, scientists strive to rethink and question what is understood to be true. This approach is not a threat to science. In fact, the changing theories indicate a strength of the discipline. Sadly many Christians, it seems, are not quite as malleable.
For the record, I do believe God created the universe. Unfortunately:
a) there is not "only one alternative"; in fact there are an infinite number of possibilities no one has even imagined, b) even if there was a way to "prove" nature was created, this in no way indicates the God of the Bible was responsible, c) even if one could prove God did create, this does not prove God remains today.
For what it's worth, science does not offer a definitive conclusion for the time between [nothing] and [something] either. Science will only ever be able to offer theory regarding the origins of the universe. For in order for the scientific method to prove anything an event needs to be observable and repeatable, something this topic does not lend itself to very well.
The nature of the gospel is here and now. The nature of the gospel is all around us. The nature of the gospel is the millions of people stating "I once was dead and now I live". Claiming proof when we have none weakens everything we say about Christ.
Blessings!
-NP
January 5, 2010 - 5:03pm
January 5, 2010 - 8:59pm
Depends on what you mean by
Depends on what you mean by "proof" and "faith".
Proof: is a scientifically verifiable and repeatable thing. Throw an apple in the air, it comes down. Can be verified, predicted, and repeated. Events like the big bang, the Resurrection, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, etc are all historic things. A historical thing is not "proof" in the scientific sense. This is a forensic science. You cannot "prove" to me that you are who you say you are: you can only present evidence and I can reach a reasonable conclusion based on your evidence.
Faith: has been understood as "accepting something blindly and without evidence." While this CAN be true, in the New Testament you see faith as being built upon evidence. In Acts Peter got up and said "You know Jesus, you saw Him die, you saw Him raise from the dead: now believe!".
I think the cosmological argument for God is a strong one in the form of the Kalaam Argument and backed up by physics (sorry, 0+0=0 doesn't really cut it for me).
However, I think a more effective argument for God is the moral argument: everyone has a sense of "right" and "wrong" but why should they have that sense? If there is such a thing as good or bad, there must be a moral law by which to distinguish between the two, if there is a moral law there must be a moral law giver. The best presentation of the moral argument that I've read is in "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis.
Regarding science: it's always dogmatic. Even when practiced by Christian thinkers (Newton, Pascal, et al). Critics bag on the Catholic church for inquisiting Galileo, but G-money had something like 5 separate inquisitions 4 of which were by the scientific community. Where the pope went wrong was siding with the scientific thought of the day: the earth was flat.
Only in "theory" (forgive the pun) is science is unbiased. Take evolution for example, there is no evidence of transitional lifeforms, there are logical and philosophical problems with the theory and yet it's taught as fact. Intelligent design isn't even considered.
For the record:
I believe God created the universe from scripture and the following argument (Kalaam)
a. What begins to exist must have a cause.
b. The universe began to exist (which can be demonstrated from physics, logic, and philosophy)
c. The universe has a cause for its existence.
The nature of the cause (the God of the Bible - timeless, changless, all powerful, etc) can further be deduced using physics, logic, and philosophy to the exclusion of all other deity claims (atheism, pantheism, polytheism, etc).
January 7, 2010 - 12:06am
Arguments versus Personal Testimony
A wise person once told me that you can argue "facts" and "historical evidence" all day long. Regardless of your position, it's easy to refute.
What people can't argue is one's own personal testimony of a changed life. When you tell someone that God came into your life and now you don't live the way you once did, not by force or by will, but because you now want to live a life that's pure and holy before God, they can't really dispute it. Yes, people could still argue the reasons behind it, but they cannot dispute the fact that it happened to you. That's why personal evangelism is such a powerful tool.
So many Christians spend their whole lives convincing others that the world is wrong. And they spend a lot of that time forwarding emails about it to other Christians. With caps lock on. In 24pt font. As if we didn't know. Of course the world is wrong. And most of them not even on purpose. And when we try to argue with them about it, it usually just makes them mad. If we all spent just a little more time showing others what God has to offer by modeling Jesus, it would probably be a lot more effective than any proof.
Just my $0.02.
Micah
Mathematical proof of God !
Please print this message and share as a tract !
This is the simplest and most powerful proof of God there is – no one with any ability to reason could say there isn’t a God after reading this !
A simple equation:
2% + 2% = 4%
2% of Carbon + 2% of Oxygen = Carbon Dioxide (CO2)
1% of Carbon + 1% of Oxygen = Carbon Dioxide
0% of Carbon + 0% Oxygen = Nothing
So what does this mean ?
This means, that according to simple maths, 1 + 1 = 2, ergo 1% + 1% = 2%
Forgeting Evolution for now, How did the Universe begin ?
How could matter have been created ?
If 1% of matter (or even anti-matter, or dark matter or any substance or sound wave or light wave or anything) + 1% of something else could possibly in a 10 to the power of infinity chance create a ‘Big Bang’, which then in turn would create in astronomically impossible odds the world, the galaxies and the solar systems, then it must be understood that:
0% of matter (sound waves, light waves or anything) + 0% of anything = Nothing (ABSOLUTE 0% of ANYTHING)
There is no point of origin for the creation of Anything – it is scientifically impossible to create anything (to cause the Big Bang) from Nothing !
THERE WAS NO SUBSTANCE OF ANY KIND TO CREATE THE BIG BANG
IF THERE WAS A SUBSTANCE TO CREATE THE BIG BANG – HOW WAS IT CREATED – ACCORDING TO MATHMATICS IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE 0% + 0% = 0% !
This leaves only one alternative:
A Creator !
Something, Somoene outside of the laws of Science – that Created Scientific laws – A God – The most powerful Scientific Mind in the Universe !
This is absolute proof that there is a Creator
When people stand before the Judgment seat of God, all the Creator has to say to them is:
“Did you understand mathematics – even the simplest form of mathematics ? Then you are without excuse ! ”
Because with this knowledge it should prompt the person to genuinely seek if there is a God.
If you want to know If there is a God, please pray this prayer (You have nothing to lose by praying this prayer, except a few moments of your time, and it is wise, considering that the greatest gamble in life is whether there is a life after death or not !)
“God, I realize that the Universe is the greatest and most astounding thing in Creation,
And I realize that there is every chance that it was Created, and not made by accident,
So, if you are real, please show me in some way, whether through wisdom, understanding, miracle or anything.
Please help me to understand how to obey you if you are truly the Creator.
Also help me to understand which is the right religion, and if Jesus is the true Way to God.”
(It is important to understand that the way of God is to work in the understanding of the person, as well as working out circumstances. Some are privileged to receive miraculous signs from God, and there are many testimonies of these things, the reason God works like this is because God is trying to develop understanding for the person on a natural level)
Based on all the evidence, which is beyond overwhelming, for God, it would be unwise not to seek for some answers about who God is and the meaning of life !
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