I'm getting a 404 with the link you provided.

Do you not have anything official like we have?

Can't comment because I don't know what information it was asking for, or how you could check things out like that through a website.

Sorry about that.

https://www.ministryopportunities.org/morningstarcc

then click on children & youth

apply for a position

Well it does seem a lot. My preference would be for some of this information to exist only on paper and not be kept longer than necessary. We have data protection laws which prevent you from asking for more information than you need, or keeping information longer than you need to. But I can't speak for any laws you might have on that.

We also have a law which means that some convictions become 'spent', so it is not illegal (ie a fraud) to answer 'no' to questions asking about criminal records if the conviction is 'spent', except for certain jobs requiring full disclosure anyway. Again, not sure if you have something similar.

The other thing is to work with children here the organisation either should or is forced to do a criminal records check with the agency I linked to earlier. However, the form requiring any criminal records declarations before a check is made can be kept sealed and hidden from the employer.

Pretty useless advice unless you move your church to the UK /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Whoah... no way. As much as I love children, having to give up my ssn and driver's license number is a deal breaker for me. I write software for the NYS DMV so I get to see a lot of first hand identity theft that involves these two numbers. I would NEVER give them up over the internet.

Okay so what can I do? It's pretty much sign up for this or not be allowed to work with any kids in our church (which is something I have a passion for, I teach awana and work with our youth group)... should I call the company or what?

I would call them up. Talk to them, arrange a meet and greet face to face if need be. If they won't let you work with the children without giving out your ssn, I would walk away. It's not worth it. I cringe at the thought of how many people have already filled out this form.

On a completely different note, is your church storing these numbers anywhere? I would think this could be a huge liability for them. Again, because of what I do, I hear stories all the time of companies having class action lawsuits brought against them because of a failure to protect personally identifiable information that they were responsible for safegaurding.

The thing is that his brother (the one who runs the company, is in Florida, so I can't really meet up with them or anything) our church is like.. 40 people, I know everyone there, so it's not even like I'm new to the church or anything. It's a church wide thing though, it's been recently implemented... and everyone is supposed to do it. The owner of the company is giving us the service for free.. so that's why we are going with it.. so I'm feeling really torn on what to do..

After emailing the pastor, he said that it is safe and that the 's' in the https:// proves that it's safe.. and that we should do it anyway..

This is what the company wrote :

"The form is secure. You can tell by the

I know it must be hard to turn down a free program like that, but I still wouldn't do it. Remember:

That information is just way too sensitive, and in this day and age I wouldn't take that chance.

I understand the difference between https and http. I deal with them daily at my job. I think that might by why I don't entirely trust them... /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="<_<" border="0" alt="dry.gif" />

I don't want to sound like I'm beating anybody over the head, if you really wanted to use this service you can. But for me personally, I still wouldn't.

It would kind of be like lighting match while filling up a gas can. Sure 9 times out of 10 you could get away with it... but that 1 time you don't you're really really sorry.

No I totally, totally understand your concern and that's why I brought it up.. it makes me leary too!!!
I finally emailed my pastor and he just sent me the link to the owner of the company:
http://www.protectmyministry.com/

I don't know if that makes any sort of difference or not..

All https means is that the information is encrypted between the browser and the webserver when you submit it. After that, there are no guarantees of "security" at all. If their web application or server has a vulnerability then geotrust or no geotrust, it is vulnerable. But there is every possibility that they have written a secure web app etc.

Where I live, it is a legal requirement to possess a "Working with Children" card (which lasts for 3 years and includes a Police check among other things) if you work with children either as a volunteer (cheaper) or as a job. Info here if interested: http://www.checkwwc.wa.gov.au . I think it is good to be able to make use of a readily available standard, and I trust one provided by the government as opposed to a private company. Perhaps of issue is that a private company can search criminal records like this?

The form might be secure, but it's stored on a webserver, in a building. Both can be broken into.

The SSN is an identifier number. When you get the SSN (I got one not long ago), the paperwork says that companies are allowed to ask for it, but you are allowed to ( a ) ask them why they need it, and ( b ) refuse to give it.

I wouldn't trust this company... and as all they seem to be selling is trust, that doesn't leave them with a lot...

On a slightly different note.....why is the a number (128) in the top-left corner of the application page?

Kita

That's the worst thing to think. Just because it is encrypted to the server does not mean it is safe, at all.

The reason is this. Say I set up a website which is at https:// site, and it asks for your bank details, PIN codes, passwords, etc. Just because it is encrypted, it is not safe - because it is going to me!

You are very right to be concerned - because the information could in fact be going straight into the wrong hands. Even if it isn't, who knows where it might be stored and who might get access?

Best advice is to refuse to fill it in online, and stick to that. It is really stupid to have to to do this - and in fact it makes me even more suspicious now.

The problem I'm having is I know that the business that is doing the background check is our Pastor's brother.. so I really don't believe that it's going to be used for evil or anything.. my problem though really is more of a principle AND the idea that the site could be so easily hacked and our information can be stolen. PLUS who knows what could happen to our information if the company dissolves, gets sold, whatever, there is no promise that they will destroy our information..

So pretty much, this is an overwheling Don't trust it?

I went to our church council (my husband is on it) and pretty my pastor disregarded all my concerns and said they were all unfounded.. so I'm really at a loss now.

That's unfortunate because these concerns are anything but unfounded. You're probably not going to convince him otherwise... but there is still nothing that says you have to use the service... take a stand!

I guess what I'll do is pay for my own background check through a reputable company.. any ideas?

Why don't you send your pastor a link to this forum topic?