The joys of working with other peoples/outdated code

December 8, 2006 - 12:25pm

Joined: 11/28/2008

In my previous job, I worked

In my previous job, I worked with a guy who learned Java from a ways back and got a job that developed a system for sports scheduling and payment system that was built on ASP and Access. The biggest problem here was that there was a demo site, and when a new client was added, they simply duplicated the demo site (and the database) and filled in the client's information. This was done, oh, over 1,000 times (it's now more than 1,400 IIRC). This was a maintenance nightmare. Forget rolling out a fix, not to mention sites that were three years old compared to 200 that were built six months ago.

I eventually got out of the "fix this" position and began working on the future development of the company. Right at the time we were planning for this new and improved system, I was contacted by my current employer. They swept me off my feet /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Fortunately, I haven't had to change anyone else's code since I started with and always have worked on my own stuff (outside of my previous job). I can look back on my HTML and be frightened by what I have, although I have to pat myself on the back because even then in my infant stages of learning HTML, I made it a point to keep my HTML legible and not a jumbled mess.

Who can bring a charge to God's elect? It is God who justifies!

Login or register to post comments

December 8, 2006 - 12:33pm

WeBBy

Joined: 11/28/2008

Aiiieeee, can I relate. I

Aiiieeee, can I relate. I maintain a site for a non-profit organization. Their budget covers 5 (five) hours per month. (I give them extra hours, too. It still doesn't go very far...) The site has 60+ pages. I'm trying to talk the director into a redesign; haven't done it yet in 2+ years but we're meeting on Dec. 29th!!!

Anyway, every page I update, I try to reduce the code bloat and include CSS features from the stylesheet I've made. Yes, takes an hour or more. Below you can see one part at the top of each page. Can you find the content? Not visible yet...

The worst part is the bottom when these tables close; it's not in the same spacing arrangement (which /td goes with which opening td??) and I have torn out so much hair trying to cut down the code without totally destroying the layout. And in 5 hours per month.

Here's my Exhibit A:

CODE

CWM Post with Helpful Links for Web Design Newbies<

Login or register to post comments

December 8, 2006 - 1:09pm

songdove

Joined: 11/28/2008

Reminds me of when I took

Reminds me of when I took over a website for a paid client whose previous webmaster had used dreamweaver to not only build, but update the site too. This site is constantly having items added and removed as it is a consignment outlet. It took me well over an hour to clean up the bloat and the poorly captured and overwritten html code from every single page of this site! Whoever the webmaster was previous to me was apparently doing everything entirely from the WYSIWYG perspective, and the result was horrors!

I've been this client's webmaster now for over 3 years, and I can tell you my code is much cleaner.

I had a similar nightmare when I took over another site around the same time that had been built using frontpage previously. I ended up redesigning that site eventually.

We sacrifice all that we are and all that we love for the greater good -- the One above.
Visit me at http://www.thesswatteam.org, http://ww

Login or register to post comments

December 9, 2006 - 11:22am

tjsingleton

Joined: 11/28/2008

Here is my Exhibit A /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

CODE

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2 FINAL//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">

<TITLE>Education Project Management Software for Education and for Academic Institutions, Course Addoptions, and Strategic Planning.</TITLE>
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="Project Management Software for Education and for Academic Institutions, Course Addoptions, and Strategic Planning.">
<META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="Education Project Management Software Academic Courses Strategic Planning Assessment Tracking Tool Courseware Course Addoption student price">
<script LANGUAGE="JavaScript">

</SCRIPT>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" BACKGROUND="../assets/images/Newbg3.jpg" LINK="#0000FF" VLINK="#800080" TEXT="#000000" topmargin=0 topmargin=0 TOPMARGIN=0 LEFTMARGIN=0 MARGINWIDTH=0 MARGINHEIGHT=0>
 <TABLE CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0 BORDER=0 WIDTH=777>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>

<TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=3 WIDTH=125>
 <TR>
 <TD><A HREF="../"><IMG ID="Picture297" HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=11 SRC="../assets/images/da_house.gif" VSPACE=0 HSPACE=0 ALIGN="MIDDLE" BORDER=0></A> <A HREF="../">Home</A> PRODUCTS <A
 HREF="../html/pkswin3.htm">Project KickStart</A> 
 <A HREF="../html/hotpicks.htm">Thinking Tools Store</A>SALES <A HREF="https://www425.ssldomain.com/projectkickstart/HTML/order_all.cfm?group=Education">Order Now</A> <A HREF="../html/authorized_resellers.htm">Resellers</A> <A
 HREF="../html/education.htm">Academic Program</A> RESOURCES <A HREF="../html/custsupp.htm">Tech Support</A>

<A HREF="../html/online_training.htm">Online Training</A> <A
 HREF="../html/tips.htm">Project Mngmnt Tips</A> <A
 HREF="../html/prjentrance.cfm">Template Exchange</A> <A HREF="../html/sitelink.htm">
 Consultants</A>COMPANY <A HREF="../html/press.htm">Press Center</A> <A HREF="../html/aboutus.htm">
 About Us</A> <A HREF="../html/tellafriend.htm">Tell a Friend</A></TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>

</TD>
 <TD></TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
 </TD>
 <TD>
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 WIDTH=635>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD WIDTH=635 HEIGHT=85 ALIGN=LEFT VALIGN=TOP><a href="http://www.projectkickstart.com"><IMG ID="Picture306" HEIGHT=85 WIDTH=635 src="../assets/images/right-project-planning.jpg" alt="Project Planning Tools" BORDER=0></a></TD>

</TR>
 </TABLE>
 <TABLE CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0 BORDER=0 WIDTH=637>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD>
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 WIDTH=403>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD WIDTH=2 HEIGHT=1><IMG SRC="../assets/images/autogen/clearpixel.gif" WIDTH=2 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=401><IMG SRC="../assets/images/autogen/clearpixel.gif" WIDTH=401 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></TD>

</TR>
 </TABLE>
 </TD>
 <TD>
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 WIDTH=234>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD WIDTH=63 HEIGHT=2><IMG SRC="../assets/images/autogen/clearpixel.gif" WIDTH=63 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=171><IMG SRC="../assets/images/autogen/clearpixel.gif" WIDTH=171 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></TD>
 </TR>

</TABLE>
 </TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
 <TABLE CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0 BORDER=0 WIDTH=619>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD>
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 WIDTH=323>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>

<TD COLSPAN=2></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD COLSPAN=5 HEIGHT=7></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD COLSPAN=2></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=238 COLSPAN=2><h3 ALIGN=CENTER>Software for Education </h3></TD>

<TD></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD COLSPAN=5 HEIGHT=21></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=312 COLSPAN=4>| <A HREF="../html/profs.htm">Professors
 </A> | <A HREF="../html/students.htm">Students</A>

| <A HREF="../html/admins.htm">Administrators</A> | <A HREF="../html/librarians.htm">Librarians</A> |</TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
 </TD>
 <TD>

<TD COLSPAN=2></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=114 COLSPAN=4><a href="#" onClick="IScreen('http://www.projectkickstart.com/html/screen1.htm')">Guided Tour</a></TD>
 <TD></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD COLSPAN=7 HEIGHT=7></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>

<TD COLSPAN=3></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=81 COLSPAN=2><A HREF="http://www.projectkickstart.com/html/Downdemo3.cfm?s=education">FREE Trial</A></TD>
 <TD COLSPAN=2></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD COLSPAN=7 HEIGHT=6></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>

<TD></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=123 COLSPAN=6><A HREF="http://intercall.webex.com/intercall/playback.php?FileName=http%3A//www.projectkickstart.com/WebEx/JeffCrowEducation.wrf&Rnd=0.9521164683552237">Project KickStart in  Education. WebEx recording</A></TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
 </TD>
 </TR>

</TABLE>
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 WIDTH=638>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD WIDTH=2 HEIGHT=6><IMG SRC="../assets/images/autogen/clearpixel.gif" WIDTH=2 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=636><IMG SRC="../assets/images/autogen/clearpixel.gif" WIDTH=636 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=636><A NAME="Overview"></A>

<TABLE WIDTH=145 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=RIGHT>
 <TR>
 <TD BGCOLOR="#DFE5FF">
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=5 WIDTH=145>
 <TR>
 <TD> "It strikes me that Project KickStart would be perfect for any business program or class, from High School to MBA
 training--- quite a profound statement, but I believe that to be true." -John Price, 
 St. Martin's College  </TD>

</TR>
 </TABLE>
 </TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
 We are proud to provide Project KickStart as an easy project management software program that
 can be used in the classroom and by faculty and
 administrators.

The
 Project KickStart software for education is
 the same as the regular Project KickStart, but
 is available at a reduced, <a
 href="#viewprices">academic prices.</a>
 Benefits for Teachers, Students and Administrators
 In
 addition to being an excellent resource for project
 planning of all types, Project KickStart can
 be used as courseware to
 provide a powerful learning tool to help students
 learn the skills of organizing, planning, teamwork
 and completing projects.
 Project KickStart delivers a skill set of how
 to brainstorm, organize and plan projects. It leads
 users to consider the structure of their projects,
 goals, resources, risks, and other strategic issues
 that are crucial for the project's success. It displays
 the planned project in a Gantt chart to show the
 tasks' schedule in time.
 Within the academic community, Project KickStart is
 used by:
 <UL TYPE="DISC">
 <LI>Administrators, </LI>

<LI>Chief Information Officers </LI>
 <LI>State/District School Staff </LI>
 <LI>Deans/Presidents </LI>
 <LI>Superintendents</LI>
 <LI>Principals</LI>
 <LI>Professors/Teachers </LI>

<LI>Librarians</LI>
 <LI>Students</LI>
 <LI>It's also used by <a href="nonprofits.htm">many nonprofits for
 project planning and management</a></LI>
 </UL>
 <A HREF="../html/profs.htm">Professors/Teachers</A> use Project KickStart to:

<UL TYPE="DISC">
 <LI>Teach project management and planning skills.
 Course adoption (or courseware)</LI>
 <LI>Teach courses in Microsoft Project. Project
 KickStart can be a friendly front-end. </LI>
 <LI>Help in grant writing</LI>
 <LI>Plan in their professional life</LI>
 <LI>Plan curriculum and lesson plans</LI>

<LI>Plan projects for and with students. Mentoring.</LI>
 <LI>Facilitate team work, with colleagues and
 students. </LI>
 </UL>
 <A HREF="../html/students.htm">Students</A> use Project KickStart to:
 <UL TYPE="DISC">
 <LI>Plan capstone projects</LI>

<LI>Organize senior
 theses and dissertations.</LI>
 <LI>Plan projects that involve teamwork, such
 as science labs or class presentations.</LI>
 <LI>Learn about organizing, planning, and completing
 projects.</LI>
 <LI>"Carve up" major projects, such as science
 projects, into obtainable goals and timelines. </LI>
 </UL>
 <A HREF="../html/admins.htm">Administrators</A> use Project KickStart to:

<UL TYPE="DISC">
 
 <LI>Plan new degree programs </LI>
 
 <LI>Improve or reform school programs.</LI>
 <LI>Organize events and fundraising.</LI>
 <LI>Identify, communicate, and implement goals.</LI>

</UL>
 <A NAME="viewprices"></A>Individual Copies at Academic Prices 
 <TABLE ID="Table9" BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=3 CELLPADDING=1 WIDTH="100%" ALIGN="LEFT">
 <TR VALIGN=TOP>
 <TD WIDTH=43 HEIGHT=19>Item</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=223>Description</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=77>Academic</TD>

<TD WIDTH=66>List</TD>
 <TD ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=95>ORDER</TD>
 </TR>

 <TR VALIGN=TOP>
 <TD WIDTH=43 HEIGHT=21>730E</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=223>Project KickStart - Teachers</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=77>$78.00</TD>

<TD WIDTH=66><STRIKE>$129.95</STRIKE></TD>
 <TD ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=95><A HREF="https://www425.ssldomain.com/projectkickstart/HTML/order_all.cfm?group=Education"><IMG ID="Picture314" HEIGHT=21 WIDTH=76 SRC="../assets/images/btn_buy.gif" VSPACE=0 HSPACE=0
 ALIGN="TOP" BORDER=0></A> </TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP>
 <TD WIDTH=43 HEIGHT=22>730E</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=223>Project KickStart - Students</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=77>$78.00</TD>

<TD WIDTH=66><STRIKE>$129.95</STRIKE></TD>
 <TD ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=95><A HREF="https://www425.ssldomain.com/projectkickstart/HTML/order_all.cfm?group=Education"><IMG ID="Picture315" HEIGHT=21 WIDTH=76 SRC="../assets/images/btn_buy.gif" VSPACE=0 HSPACE=0
 ALIGN="TOP" BORDER=0></A> </TD>
 </TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP>
 <TD WIDTH=43 HEIGHT=19>730E</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=223>Project KickStart - Administrators</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=77>$78.00</TD>

<TD WIDTH=66><STRIKE>$129.95</STRIKE></TD>
 <TD ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=95><A HREF="https://www425.ssldomain.com/projectkickstart/HTML/order_all.cfm?group=Education"><IMG ID="Picture316" HEIGHT=21 WIDTH=76 SRC="../assets/images/btn_buy.gif" VSPACE=0 HSPACE=0
 ALIGN="TOP" BORDER=0></A> </TD>
 </TR>

 </TABLE>
 
 <a name="multiple"></a>Multiple Copies for Students at Educational
 Institutions

<TABLE ID="Table10" BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=3 CELLPADDING=1 width="100%" ALIGN="LEFT">

 <TR VALIGN=TOP>
 <TD WIDTH=43 HEIGHT=19>Item</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=223>Description</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=77>Academic</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=66>List</TD>
 <TD ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=95>ORDER</TD>

</TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP>
 <TD WIDTH=43 HEIGHT=22>736</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=223>Project KickStart course adoption *</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=77>$45.00</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=66><STRIKE>$129.95</STRIKE></TD>
 <TD ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=95><A HREF="https://www425.ssldomain.com/projectkickstart/HTML/order_all.cfm?group=Education"><IMG ID="Picture317" HEIGHT=21 WIDTH=76 SRC="../assets/images/btn_buy.gif" VSPACE=0 HSPACE=0
 ALIGN="TOP" BORDER=0></A> </TD>

</TR>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP>
 <TD WIDTH=43 HEIGHT=19>734</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=223>Project KickStart lab pack **</TD>
 <TD WIDTH=77>$59.95</TD>
 <TD> </TD>
 <TD ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=95><A HREF="https://www425.ssldomain.com/projectkickstart/HTML/order_all.cfm?group=Education"><IMG ID="Picture318" HEIGHT=21 WIDTH=76 SRC="../assets/images/btn_buy.gif" VSPACE=0 HSPACE=0
 ALIGN="TOP" BORDER=0></A> </TD>

</TR>
 </TABLE>
 
 *  Course adoption (for teachers who include
 Project KickStart in courses. Must order 5 or more. 
 Each student gets a copy.) 
 ** Lab pack (Installed in computer lab on multiple computers. Must order 5 or more.)

Contact <A HREF="mailto:cb@projectkickstart.com">Carolyn Burd</A>, 510-644-0694
 For Academic Pricing:
 Please fax valid school ID to 510-644-3823.
 Reasons for using Project KickStart in
 the classroom 
 Most
 of the value in any project is created by
 the quality of thought invested in the creation
 and design of the activities. Project
 KickStart is easy to understand and easy
 to learn. The examples and fill in areas
 help to get students started toward a deeper
 understanding of the theories and processes.
 Project KickStart takes the frustration out
 of starting a new project and helps in the
 critical initial-planning phase. It steps
 you through a thinking process that makes
 thinking up the tasks of a project fast and
 easy. Project KickStart not only helps
 students schedule for a project but it also
 gives them advise on what to consider when
 working on a project  and this is applicable
 directly to any project. 
 Instructional Resources for Project
 KickStart and Project-Based Learning

<A
 HREF="http://intercall.webex.com/intercall/playback.php?FileName=http%3A//www.projectkickstart.com/WebEx/JeffCrowEducation.wrf&Rnd=0.9521164683552237"> Using
 Project KickStart in Education - WebEx Recording
 by Jeff Crow</A> 
 <A HREF="http://courses.washington.edu/~hs590a/modules/25/kickstrt.pdf">Project
 Management using Project KickStart,
 by Laura Larsson, University of Washington</A> 
 <A HREF="../html/train_new_users.htm">How to
 train new users of Project KickStart</A>. 
 <A HREF="../html/tips.htm">Project Management
 Tips and Tricks</A> 
 <A HREF="../html/downdemo3.cfm?s=education">Project
 KickStart 20-Day Trial (may be extended) </A>
 <A HREF="../html/guar.htm"><IMG ID="Picture313" HEIGHT=60 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/moneyback_trans_small.gif" VSPACE=0 HSPACE=0 ALIGN="RIGHT" BORDER=0></A>System
 Requirements

<UL TYPE="DISC">
 <LI>Windows 98 / Me / NT / 2000 / XP</LI>
 <LI>32 MB RAM, 10 MB free disk space</LI>
 <LI>Project KickStart may also be run on a Mac
 with <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=software&field-keywords=Virtual%20PC&bq=1/102-2010802-7604126">"Virtual
 PC"</A> installed. </LI>
 </UL>
 Selected US Colleges and Universities that
 Use Project KickStart

<TABLE WIDTH=145 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=RIGHT>
 <TR>
 <TD BGCOLOR="#DFE5FF">
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=5 WIDTH=145>
 <TR>
 <TD> Eastern College has adopted Project KickStart for its first-year Strategic Thinking Course in the Fast-Track MBA
 Program."  </TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>

</TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
 Antioch University Santa Barbara, Ashland University,
 Bellingham Technical College, Belmont University,
 Berea College, Bradley University, Brigham Young
 University, Brown University, Caroll College, <A HREF="../html/profs.htm#columbia">Columbia
 University</A>,
 Contennial College, Central Missouri State University, Cornell
 University, Dallas County Community College,
 De Anza College, Dixie College, Doane College, Eastern
 College, Florida State University, Gallaudet
 University, Harvard School of Public Health, Johns
 Hopkins University, <a href="http://www.hhs.iup.edu/sa/Faculty/rivers.shtm">Indiana
 University of Pennsylvania</a>, ITT Technical
 Institute, Lansing Community College, Luther College,
 Marlboro College, <A HREF="http://web.mit.edu/pm/tools.html">

Massachusetts Institute of Technology</A>, Medical
 College of Georgia, Michigan State University, Mississippi
 State University, Mohawk Valley Community College,
 NC Community College System, New College of USF,
 New Mexico State University, New York University,
 Northeast Wisconsin Technical College, Northeastern
 University, Norwich University, University of Pennsylvania,
 Penn State University, Portland State University,
 Perdue University Calumet, San Diego State University,
 San Jose State University, Selby College, San Francisco
 State University College of Business, Shawnee State
 University, Southern Oregon University, St. John's
 University, Stanford
 University,
 Texas A&M, United States Military Academy, University
 of California, University of Iowa, University
 of Kentucky Media Design, <A
 HREF="../html/profs.htm#umass">University of
 Massachusetts</A>, University of Michigan, University
 of Newcastle, University of Pennsylvania,
 University of Virginia, University of Washington,
 Virginia State University, Webster University, and Yale
 University.
 Selected International Colleges and Universities
 that Use Project KickStart

<TABLE WIDTH=145 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=RIGHT>
 <TR>
 <TD BGCOLOR="#DFE5FF">
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=5 WIDTH=145>
 <TR>
 <TD> Singapore's Ministry of Education selected Project KickStart for use in High School IT (Information Technology)
 classes.  </TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>

</TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
 Brescia University
 Italy, Chungbuk National University, Concordia University,
 Eltham College, European Trade Union College, First
 Nations University of Canada, George Brown College,
 Georgian College, Henley Management College, Hsing-Wu
 College, Humber College,
 La Trobe University, Masaryk University, Monash
 University, Mozarthof School Voor ZML, Northern
 Territory University, Portage College, Portal,
 Technical University of British Columbia, Queen's
 University, Salford University, Sheffield Hallam
 University, Singapore Ministry
 of Education (approved for High School Information
 Technology classes),Southern Cross University,
 St Martins College, Technical University of Denmark,
 TURISTICA College for tourism, University of Maastricht,
 University of New South Wales, <a href="http://bacs.uq.edu.au/?page=39094&pid=0" target="_blank">University
 of Queensland</a>,
 University of the West Indies at Cave Hill

Project KickStart
is also used in other educational institutions

Byron High School, California
 Charter Academy, The
 Hotchkiss School, Lane Education Service District,
 Limestone District School Board, Los Angeles Unified
 School District, Milton Hershey School, Missouri
 Department of Elementary and Secondary Schools, Monument
 Colorado School District, Morris School District,
 Nordonia Hills City School District, Office Of
 Education State Of Vermont, Oklahoma City Public
 Schools, Prince Charles Education Resource, Saint
 Plus X High School, Suburban Music School, The
 Hope School, and Traverse City Public Schools.
 </TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
 <TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 WIDTH=637>
 <TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD WIDTH=2 HEIGHT=10><IMG SRC="../assets/images/autogen/clearpixel.gif" WIDTH=2 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=635><IMG SRC="../assets/images/autogen/clearpixel.gif" WIDTH=635 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></TD>
 </TR>

<TR VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT>
 <TD></TD>
 <TD WIDTH=635><hr size=1>| <A HREF="../">Home</A> | <A HREF="../html/pkswin3.htm">Project KickStart</A> | <A HREF="../html/hotpicks.htm">Store</A> | <A HREF="../html/partner_program.htm">

Partner Program</A> | <A
 HREF="../html/regis.htm">Register</A> | <A HREF="contact.htm">Contact us</A> |   
  2000 Hearst Ave. Berkeley, CA 94709           Tel: 800-678-7008     Int'l: 510-644-0694  Copyright © <A
 HREF="../html/aboutus.htm">Experience In Software, Inc.</A> 
 1997-2006                    Modified: Monday, October 20, 2003</TD>

</TR>
 </TABLE>
 </TD>
 </TR>
 </TABLE>
</BODY>
</HTML>

TJ SINGLETON

Login or register to post comments

December 9, 2006 - 11:57am

WeBBy

Joined: 11/28/2008

TJ, I concede. Oh my

TJ, I concede. Oh my goodness, that is simply awesome.

And I didn't know people still used HTML 3.2???

CWM Post with Helpful Links for Web Design Newbies<

Login or register to post comments

December 9, 2006 - 12:41pm

Mathachew

Joined: 11/28/2008

That code looks a lot like

That code looks a lot like the junk I used to edit with my previous job. And as I noted, it wasn't just a few pages, it was over 1,000 sites that things like this were updated on a daily basis. Still though, that's horrendous.

Who can bring a charge to God's elect? It is God who justifies!

Login or register to post comments

December 9, 2006 - 1:10pm

tjsingleton

Joined: 11/28/2008

Thinks like this make me

Thinks like this make me chuckle though:

CODE

Massachusetts Institute of Technology</A>,

That comma is too large! let's make it a it smaller /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

QUOTE(Mathachew @ Dec 9 2006, 11:41 AM)

That code looks a lot like the junk I used to edit with my previous job. And as I noted, it wasn't just a few pages, it was over 1,000 sites that things like this were updated on a daily basis. Still though, that's horrendous.

Glad you got swept away -- for your sanity. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

TJ SINGLETON

Login or register to post comments

December 9, 2006 - 1:18pm

pianogal86

Joined: 11/28/2008

Holy mackerel! That

Holy mackerel! That is...just... /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

Anne (-O..O-) aka Anne the Cat =^.^=
Web :: Building

Login or register to post comments

December 10, 2006 - 3:32pm

Mr. DOS

Joined: 11/28/2008

TJ, let me put this bluntly.

TJ, let me put this bluntly. Your exhibit? It scares me. And what I thought was bad doesn't even compair... http://webstertrophycompetition.netfirms.com/oldindex.htm

--- Mr. DOS

Login or register to post comments

December 15, 2006 - 6:14pm

mairving

Joined: 11/28/2008

Bad HTML slows down a page

Bad HTML slows down a page but far worse to me is the database construct behind it.

The worst one that I have to deal with is a database at work. It is composed of old dbf's with exe's written in Delphi. That part isn't the worst of it. The database was designed by someone who had no idea what they were doing. Here is an example. You have a patient table in that table there is a column that is a billing number. You would think that would be an easy way to make a primary key but instead they made the primary key to consist of 3 parts, the location a 3 digit alpha field, the billing number, and another character that would indicate a family. Even more fun when they tie all of this together they have spaces in it. So you have the primary key something like 'XXX 11A' or 'XXX11111A' . Makes it real fun to when you are trying to join tables.

Even more fun is in the program itself, they have dropdown menus. Well you aren't required to use nor can you require a person to enter values from the dropdown list. What makes it worse is that typing the value in the dropdown menu doesn't even return results from the menu. It only does that when you select the down arrow. I have talked to the software vendor about the problem. Their response was 'we've never had an issue with anybody on that before'. As a result there isn't any referential integrity in the database. I spend most of my time cleaning things up or writing a report to let someone else clean it up.

Still the worst thing in this database is that they have a table that has around 200 columns. However, when I looked at the database structure of the table, I noticed that instead of having all of these columns, they have only one column. So basically they have all of the records in one column that has to be parsed everytime that it is used. There are actually several tables in the database that are like that. Most aren't that large.

Makes my job fun.

Want to Make $$$$ with your Computer? No Risk! Simply press shift-4 four times in a row

Login or register to post comments

December 16, 2006 - 11:02am

tjsingleton

Joined: 11/28/2008

poor poor thing! that sounds

poor poor thing! that sounds like it hurts!

TJ SINGLETON

Login or register to post comments

December 29, 2006 - 2:41pm

Xeoncross

Joined: 11/28/2008

Ok, fine... If you are

Ok, fine... If you are determined to use a WYSIWYG editor (dreamweaver) - for heavens sake - at least take a look under the hood every now and then...

/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Xeoncros - Code 2 Truth - Imrah - Code 2

Login or register to post comments

December 29, 2006 - 6:16pm

songdove

Joined: 11/28/2008

HEAR HEAR!!!!

We sacrifice all that we are and all that we love for the greater good -- the One above.
Visit me at http://www.thesswatteam.org, http://ww

Login or register to post comments

December 29, 2006 - 9:37pm

Mr. DOS

Joined: 11/28/2008

Hear what? Oh... yeah...

Hear what? Oh... yeah... um... how's about "if you're determined to use a WYSIWYG editor, for a limited time only, we'll only leave an (open) jar of red ants in your bed instead of your underwear drawer"? /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

And while we're at it, when can we start enforcing "an eye for an eye" with all the bad web designers out there? I don't know how many times I've been temporarily blinded... /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

--- Mr. DOS

Login or register to post comments

January 13, 2007 - 3:57am

Mike@neXgen

Joined: 11/28/2008

I use Dreamweaver, but I

I use Dreamweaver, but I don't use the Design (WYSIWYG) interface.
I just write the code straight and only flick over to Design Mode just to check if everything's going OK...

Login or register to post comments

January 17, 2007 - 1:06pm

polvero

Joined: 11/28/2008

It's hard to knock on the bad

It's hard to knock on the bad html that is spit out by wysiwyg's - especially when the original author obviously had the intent of never writing a single line of code. The best thing to do at that point if you're going to clean up a page is just to fire it up in your own wysiwyg and start dragging and dropping things around.

Sometimes the only reason legacy code is bad is simply because it's old. In some of my experience, even legacy code can be better crafted and more well thought out that brand new code.

For the most part, it's important for whomever is developing code - that they adhere to the best practices and standards for their time.

I also think it's safe to say that nearly all of us at one time in our lives used to develop with tables, spacer gif's, and font tags. That's just the way it had to be done.

Dustin Diaz: ./with Imagination

Login or register to post comments

January 19, 2007 - 11:06pm

Mr. DOS

Joined: 11/28/2008

Or you could use a

Or you could use a half-decent WYSIWYG editor like Nvu... The code isn't the cleanest, but it's not as bas as, say, FrontPage... although, it'd have to be pretty bad to be that bad /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="<_<" border="0" alt="dry.gif" />

--- Mr. DOS

Login or register to post comments

January 20, 2007 - 11:59am

MrHerald

Joined: 11/28/2008

The people who designed our

The people who designed our web site made lots of errors. I went in to make some changes and realized how bad it was. The even coded black as #OOOO0O (oooo0o). When I pointed out that it had O instead of 0 they said it didn't matter.

Made me very unhappy.

If you liked this post, you'll love The Open Source Ministry Forum
And, the Open Source Ministry Blog {

Login or register to post comments

January 20, 2007 - 7:22pm

songdove

Joined: 11/28/2008

I'm still in the table and

I'm still in the table and font tag stage myself, but coding by hand is leaving me far cleaner code than the wysiwyg editors I've either tried or had to clean up from.

We sacrifice all that we are and all that we love for the greater good -- the One above.
Visit me at http://www.thesswatteam.org, http://ww

Login or register to post comments

The Geeks & God Podcast

The joys of working with other peoples/outdated code